Tomorrowland, er um Pixarland

DisBeamer · Post by **DisBeamer** » Oct Wed 24, 2007 11:30 pm

yodiwan1 wrote:i actually like stitsches great escape, and so do a bunch of people i ahve been on it with. The technology is great with the smells and everything!!!

Yeah I actually agree the technology is decent (at least, as decent as it was with AE - they didn't really change much from AE to Stitch), and I love the Stitch animatronic (if you can bear the ride to look at it, it's really complex in its movement). That's why I particularly picked on the story-design of the attraction, which I think is pretty terrible. As did Disney, actually, which is why they changed it after it first opened...

I am sorry that more people don't like it. i even think its better than alien encounter because to me that one made no sense at all. It wasn't scarey, the little fuzzy alien was annoying, and watching the pre-show just hurt.

I think AE was dated and due for a change, I can't really argue there. I liked the attraction okay, but it was very noticeable (to me, anyway) how audiences weren't impressed with it anymore. Closer to when it first opened (but not -right- when it opened, before they tweaked it .. what is it with that building and tweaking?) ... anyway, closer to when it first opened, the parts where the audio track told people not to scream and stuff ... people actually screamed. The last times I rode, no one did. Actually on the live track Subsonic has on here, no one does either, from what I recall. A reflection of jaded society, maybe...

So, to sum it up, I DO feel that Stitches great Escape does cater to both adults and children.

Gotcha. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

You say you've been on with a bunch of people who liked it; I say I've been on with a bunch of people who very much didn't. I also can't find it in myself to agree the burp effect - which is really one of the main 'interactive' bits of the ride - or the dialogue is aimed at the majority of adults. I'm glad you (and people you've been on with) like it though; it'd be a shame if no one at all did. ^_^

js3901 wrote:very well put. that's more-or-less what I was trying to say with my previous post. just couldn't put it into words that made much sense (LONG day at the office today)

Thanks. I figured we were on the same page based on your post, but I felt the need to distinguish the movie and character from the ride, since I have a soft spot for the little blue maniac.

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 4:36 am

yodiwan1 wrote:...i dont see things as sucking in the parks...everyone has their favorites and dislikes, thats what makes people different.

Starting around 15 years or so ago, there started to be a noticeable decline in quality. (Maybe you're not old enough to remember, and Disney is probably counting on that.) At first, it was pretty subtle, and most people who pointed it out were regarded as cranks and loons.

Then it started getting more pronounced with the closing of Mr. Toad and the horrible and insulting reformat of the Tiki Birds. Things got progressively worse (on the whole) for a while, until finally even Disney itself acknowledged the problem.

Now that they're aware of the problem, there have been a number of positive signs, but for every step forward, there seems to be at least one step back. I don't know if this is just all the bad ideas from before the change working their way through the system or if they're still going to be making bad decisions in the future. Time will tell, I guess.

You don't have to agree with the above, but there's been much discussion about it and I'd say it's the general consensus among those who pay close attention to such things, both inside and outside the company.

With regards to the Stitch attraction, I'm always a little disappointed with humor based on bodily functions (especially the dog sneezing on you in HISTA). Not that I don't sometimes find it funny, but it's just cheap. It's pretty hard to find a children's film these days without at least one gaseous expulsion.

Ebert mentioned a while ago that if your film's big laugh involves a collision with a pile of manure, your movie is probably in trouble.

That said, I've read before that Walt used to give his animators an extra few bucks if they wrote a gag that made him laugh. The animators figured out that any time a character got whacked in the butt with something, Uncle Walt would chuckle, which is why Pluto is constantly taking such abuse.

Nice to know that Walt has his sociopathic tendencies too!

yodiwan1 · Post by **yodiwan1** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 7:34 am

I'll admit that I was also disapointed when many of the older attractiosn closed, Mr.toads, especially was my favorite ride, and all of the Epcot rides as well, I try to look at the positives though instead of all the negatives. Everything in the world evolves. Even Disney. Sometimes they make good decisions, sometimes bad. Tiki bird makeover, very bad...20,000 league gone for over 10 years before something really took its place...bad......peoplemover -TTA, not bad at all....living seas-nemo...very good, (the old ide was really just sitting while looking at the fish instead of walking, at least there is entertainment now)....They are only human and not everything can be perfect. Sometiems we feel they must be becuase everything is so expensive and how dare they give us a product we don't liek for the money we pay, but that is life. They can't please ev everyone, as seen in this thread.

Post by **rdeacon** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 10:03 am

Excellent Debate!!!

I also tend to look at the positives when I am in the parks. But that doesn't mean I turn a blind eye to the decline in the quality of attractions, maintenance, and don't hold Disney accountable for not raising the bar, or at least maintaining the bar.

Disney set the standard, and are completely to blame for becoming complacent in there approach to many of the newer attractions, MILF, Stitch, etc, and there lack of care by letting older attractions grow old and lame.

I do feel they have done well with a few attractions, Everest for one. So if they can do such a tremendous job with Everest, how does MILF happen?

The blame has to rise to the top, hope fully with the infusion of new passionate execs ie Igar and Lasseter, things will improve, and the bar will once again be raised to a new level.

Rich

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 10:29 am

As I've wrote in an earlier post. The most glaring points of decline I see aren't the ones mentioned here. It's the fact that (if you look close) a lot of the little detail things aren't maintained.
Look at ride elements. When you get on rides there are always things not working. A glaring example is Splash, there are always things not working properly or just not working at all.
When was the last time you heard the talking drinking water fountains in EPCOT working? Just look around next time your in the parks (especially at night) and count how many lights are out. MGM (It will always be MGM to me) is a great place to look for this. My closes friend has been a tech at EPCOT (actually various departments) for almost 18 years. When I asked him about this he told me; "THEY WON"T ORDER THE LIGHTS THEY NEED!" Disney middle management feel's that guest won't notice.
For those of us that have been Disney people for the long term, (I'm 47 and have been going to WDW since I'm 15) We notice! Disney, has in the past, taken us for granted.
From what I'm hearing now with the new management, this attitude is changing and it sounds encouraging. Only time will tell. As has been posted earlier in this tread, not all of the changes in the rides and shows have been for the good. It seems like most fall in that not for the good area. I feel they are starting to listen to US, the Disney FREAKS!
They're are many Disney boards out there and Disney pays attention to them all and in turn us. We have to keep up the debate and make them hear what we feel and think. It's the only way that change will come about!!
If we keep raging against the machine..THE MACHINE WILL LISTEN!!

Post by **rdeacon** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 10:58 am

Its odd you mention the talking drinking fountain in Epcot....

When I was last there I went to that drinking fountain specifically to show my niece and it didn't work...

It made me sad

I know its just a little thing, but it was a cool little hidden Disney plus that should fixed.

Rich

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 11:02 am

I'm curious..How many people out there knew they talked?

Post by **Dr. Ravenscroft** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 11:45 am

Jacca5660 wrote:I'm curious..How many people out there knew they talked?

I did!

One thing I do say they did good with was the Haunted Mansion. For years it was falling into disrepair and finally they decided to fix it and, from what I hear since I still haven't seen it for myself, they did a great job. Speakers upgraded, lighting fixed, etc. So I do think they are starting to do things about the maintenance issues. As for quality issues only time will tell on that, because anyone can talk about how they WILL do better or they HAVE plans to but you can only be sure after it is done.

yodiwan1 · Post by **yodiwan1** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 12:08 pm

i knew they talked, first time i tok a dirnk adn didnt knwo ti freaked me out, now I go to them for a good laugh!

gurggle gurggle gurggle

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 12:59 pm

I was thinking about my previous post. Don't get my wrong, I don't go to the parks and look for things that are broken. I'm as lost in the magic as anybody else posting here. When I'm there I'm there and the world is a distant memory.
Yes I shed a few tears when it time to go back home and be an adult. My DW refers to me as her biggest kid when we're at WDW. I have days where my 2 teenage DS's are the responsible adults for the day. You know they get to choose what parks we were going to and where we were going to eat. You know things of that sort.
When I get home and start looking at pictures (you've got to love digital). After looking a several thousand of them and comparing to last time, You start to see what's still not fixed.
It also doesn't help that I have somebody who is there to fix stuff and tells me all about how they're not allowed to repair stuff because "It's not in the budget". You have got to love a company that will spend millions in research and development. Then only spend thousands in maintenance (What were they thinking?).
I do love Disney! My whole family is a "DISNEY FAMILY". I guess after you haven't been to the parks in months you start picking at them.
My next post how Disneyfied is you home and property

Cheshire Cat · Post by **Cheshire Cat** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 2:11 pm

Upon reading this discussion, I saw that someone wrote, "Disney is human and makes mistakes" or something along those lines. That may be true of today's Disney, but back in the Walt era and pre-Esiner era, everything they made had to be perfect. The company wouldn't build or make anything that wasn't perfect.

The water fountain is a perfect example of how Disney doesn't keep up with their original standards of perfection. I remember when I used to get a drink from that wter fountain to hear it talk. Now, i only go take a drink from that water fountain to see if Disney's fixed it.

(And for the person who asked how many people knew it talked - I'm sure not that many seeing as it's in direct sunlight all day long. Many people would rather go to water fountains in the shade or indoors where they know the water will be cold. Truth be told, I've never actually "drinken" from the fountain, just pushed the button

)

Is there a talking water fountain somewhere in Tomorrowland too? I can't remember...

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 2:15 pm

Is their a talking water fountain somewhere in Tomorrowland too? I can't remember...

I don't believe so. I think that was an EPCOT special. Your right though, I don't think I actually drank from the talkie. Just wanted to hear it!

yodiwan1 · Post by **yodiwan1** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 2:18 pm

see, now I don't even feel that everything in Walt's era were perfect...now I am to young to have gone on any of the rides, but looking at old pictures and seeing how the characters looked, I can say they were far from perfect, some were even scarey!! There really isn't anything perfect in the world, what may be perfect to one person may be a complete disaster to another....thats whats so great about this place...speaking as a former cast member who knows how hard it can be to work there, and as a huge, major,obsessed Disney fan, I truly appreciate the magic that is created there. Yes, things break down, and lights go out, and we do expect "a perfect" trip everytime we all go, but fixing attractions isn't as easy as everyone thinks. That is why they have yearly refurbishments. If everything was perfect, I would have a life-long fast pass for everything, a lifetime pass to all parks, and priority seating wherever I want...darn I wish things were "PERFECT!!"

Cheshire Cat · Post by **Cheshire Cat** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 2:24 pm

What I mean by "perfect" is perfect through the eyes of Walt Disney. he was a perfectionist. The new management knows that the stuff they produce isn't "perfect" and would never have stood up against Walt's standards. Walt did the best he could with what he had. If he were alive today with today's technology, he would be able to do everything even better than what the Disney Co. is producing now.

(Although Walt was up to bigger and better things besides the theme parks by the time he passed away. One can only imagine what the world would have been like if Walt made it even a few more years)

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Oct Thu 25, 2007 2:26 pm

yodiwan1 wrote:see, now I don't even feel that everything in Walt's era were perfect...now I am to young to have gone on any of the rides, but looking at old pictures and seeing how the characters looked, I can say they were far from perfect, some were even scarey!! There really isn't anything perfect in the world, what may be perfect to one person may be a complete disaster to another....thats whats so great about this place...speaking as a former cast member who knows how hard it can be to work there, and as a huge, major,obsessed Disney fan, I truly appreciate the magic that is created there. Yes, things break down, and lights go out, and we do expect "a perfect" trip everytime we all go, but fixing attractions isn't as easy as everyone thinks. That is why they have yearly refurbishments. If everything was perfect, I would have a life-long fast pass for everything, a lifetime pass to all parks, and priority seating wherever I want...darn I wish things were "PERFECT!!"

I'm not looking for perfection. I do understand how hard it is to maintain the parks. I hear about it a few times a week. My point is: The front line management (for a large part) doesn't care. If you were a cast member for any length of time you know this to be true. How CM's are treated could be a whole new area of this forum. It's amazing you still love Disney, I know some people that have been fried by Disney and the last thing they want to do with their off hours are go back as a guest