Monorail Accident

MmeLeota · Post by **MmeLeota** » Jul Thu 09, 2009 12:02 pm

agingerbugg wrote:
GhostHost wrote:
packwingfn wrote:
Even Austin tried reversing his monorail when he saw pink coming at him.

Really? How do we know this? Not doubting you, just curious.

It is stated in the official NTSB report. I am sure they saw the controls in the reverse position or something similar to that. Don't know if the monorail trains have something similar to a "black box," but that could tell them too.

According to the article that MadEye originally posted, the report says that he may have tried to reverse the train. I can't imagine the thoughts going through Austin's head. How fast was monorail pink going to cause so much damage?

Bullwinkle · Post by **Bullwinkle** » Jul Thu 09, 2009 12:31 pm

It's been reported that both monrails had black boxes.

DisBeamer · Post by **DisBeamer** » Jul Thu 09, 2009 4:15 pm

MmeLeota wrote:According to the article that MadEye originally posted, the report says that he may have tried to reverse the train. I can't imagine the thoughts going through Austin's head. How fast was monorail pink going to cause so much damage?

From what I understand, backing like Pink was doing is capped at 15mph. You have to keep in mind, that's a lot of mass going at 15mph.

Such a terrible accident. I hope they can figure out how so many of the failsafes failed.

MadEye · Post by **MadEye** » Jul Thu 09, 2009 5:41 pm

3 suspensions (Manager on duty [they were off property at a local restaurant coordinating monorails with the 2 way radio they had], Monorail Shop CM, and the pilot of Pink).

The manager should have been fired on the spot when they found out they were not even on property!!!

Bullwinkle · Post by **Bullwinkle** » Jul Thu 09, 2009 6:04 pm

Wonder why the pilot of pink was suspended...He was technically driving blind.

DisBeamer · Post by **DisBeamer** » Jul Thu 09, 2009 7:01 pm

Bullwinkle wrote:Wonder why the pilot of pink was suspended...He was technically driving blind.

Maybe just for 'show' at this point? Unless they have some indication that he/she wasn't paying attention to the rear-views (as small as they are). I'm sure they're checking a lot of cellphone/texting records for timestamps.

I'm really surprised the manager was off property. I realize it was a holiday but ... holy geez. Is that confirmed at this point (the whereabouts, not the suspension) or still internet rumor?

boilerbabe · Post by **boilerbabe** » Jul Thu 09, 2009 7:03 pm

This is so very tragic and sad! My thoughts and prayers go out to all of those that were involved.

agingerbugg · Post by **agingerbugg** » Jul Thu 09, 2009 10:20 pm

This is from my friend who is an ex-pilot...

agingerbugg's friend wrote:Monorail Pink deadheaded at EPCOT as was cleared in reverse to exterior. Not sure if he was cleared to Base and overshot the stop or was cleared through base.

Monorail Purple was approaching concourse mapo override.

It was a muggy/patchy foggy night and the windows of the trains were covered with condensation.

Pink backed straight thru concourse into purple over the mall area at TTC. The air brakes bled down and the trains rolled down the hill into the station.

The two loaders didn't even kill power. Watch the video on http://www.facebook.com/l/;clickorlando.com ... power was still on. The loaders didn't know what to do.

Central was out cruising in the van with the supervisor........doing the switch from the van. Reedy creek got to TTC before central got back.

They eliminated the maintenance at central ("park rangers") and replaced them with a camera at switch beam and the monitor at central. However, they had a problem with the switch about a month or so ago, so they brought them back for switches. I think, but I'm not sure, that the park ranger verified the switch to spur.

Shop didn't check their board.

Central wasn't at the console to check the board and monitor.

The loaders didn't know to kill power.

Pink didn't realize they were backing into concourse instead of base.

He got this information from people he knows who work in the monorail shop.

DisBeamer · Post by **DisBeamer** » Jul Thu 09, 2009 11:39 pm

I've read a lot of speculative stuff from ex-pilots and such over the past few days... Not saying they're 100% for sure wrong about what happened, but I'd also point out a lot of the speculation I've read from people - actual current and ex pilots - is contradictory. I've seen a lot of "It's impossible not to know you're on the wrong line!" vs "Pink was backing up without realizing it was on the wrong line" for instance.

Like I said, m'not saying these people don't know what they're talking about, but I'm going to wait for the official OSHA/NTSB stuff before I'm ready to point fingers, I think.

I also don't blame them for speculating, but something about it kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The video circulating, for example, I thought, and still think, is in really bad taste. I realize at the time it was taken, the people filming were not aware there was someone dead or dying in that car, but we now know that's the case. I'm sure it'll be helpful (well, maybe) to the investigation but using it to speculate on what happened as ... armchair quarterbacks strikes me as ... disrespectful, I guess. I dunno; maybe that's just me.

elizabethswann · Post by **elizabethswann** » Jul Fri 10, 2009 5:22 am

One of my friends was there the night it happened and she had a close call with going on the monorail when it happened but thankfully she avoided it. Still, it's horrible news to hear.

cousininmiami · Post by **cousininmiami** » Jul Fri 10, 2009 9:57 am

Even though we don't work there, I feel like we are one big Disney family. It is too sad. My thoughts are with their families.

Post by **horizons1** » Jul Fri 10, 2009 1:59 pm

Do you think Disney will ban front cab guests in the evenings when a switch is planned? I just keep thinking what if there were guests up there too?!

Bullwinkle · Post by **Bullwinkle** » Jul Fri 10, 2009 3:17 pm

From clickorlando.com:

"The preliminary NTSB report that was released on Wednesday ruled out a mechanical failure, but said for some reason the pink train did not switch onto a spur, keeping it on the same beam where the purple train was located. Wuennenberg also had six passengers on his train.

The report indicated that Wuennenberg had tried to put the purple train in reverse before the collision, meaning it is possible that he saw the pink train backing into him and tried to save himself and his passengers.

After ruling out mechanical failure, the NTSB investigator will now focus on possible human or procedural errors.

The NTSB report said the pilot of the pink train had been instructed to back up, and now the investigator will look into who gave that instruction and why.

"If they found nothing wrong in the mechanical side, nothing wrong with the switching system, then they are likely to zero in on the human factors," former NTSB investigator Peter Goelz said.

Several people are involved in the process of switching a monorail from one beam to another.

A maintenance worker in the monorail storage barn controls the track switch. Once that person flips the switch and verifies that the switch occurred, he or she is supposed to radio monorail control, which is located inside the passenger loading station. A monorail control supervisor then checks his or her own computers before notifying the monorail pilot that it is safe to proceed."

MadEye · Post by **MadEye** » Jul Fri 10, 2009 3:55 pm

horizons1 wrote:Do you think Disney will ban front cab guests in the evenings when a switch is planned? I just keep thinking what if there were guests up there too?!

Guests are not allowed in a Monorail that is switching beams.

Post by **horizons1** » Jul Fri 10, 2009 4:49 pm

MadEye wrote:
horizons1 wrote:Do you think Disney will ban front cab guests in the evenings when a switch is planned? I just keep thinking what if there were guests up there too?!
Guests are not allowed in a Monorail that is switching beams.

That's not what I meant. Guests presumably would've been allowed in Purple right?