Thrill Park at Disney

All four parks, waterparks, and other magic in Central Florida

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Post by Jacca5660 » Mar Thu 19, 2009 8:12 pm

js3901 wrote:a thrill park would not be well-received by Disney fans. it goes against everything that Disney was about. While he wanted to be on the cutting edge, Walt wanted to build a place where parents and kids can enjoy themselves together. He didn't want attractions where only the parents could go, or only the kids. a thrill park would exclude people.
I think you have it wrong! I know that a lot of families (mine included) would love this! A lot of people go to Disney and then have to take their teenagers to Universal for Coaster time. I Disney coaster park would make us be able to stay on property and not have to leave. This would be great, they could go to the coaster park and we could go to EPCOT.
Peerless83 wrote:It may exclude people...so are you saying if Disney decides to go forward with the much rumored night kingdom...and charges $200 per person...would you be against this as well? Because this would exclude people.

Or are you against how much it costs to go to a Disney park today...$74.00? Because does this kind of exclude certain groups of people as well?

My point is..Disney has already done a lot of things that would make Walt turn in his grave...you cant please everyone...and if executives see that it could be profitable...wouldnt it make sense to go forward with it? Because you said it wouldnt be well received by Disney fans...well Im a huge Disney nut..and I would love to see it...and i cant imagine that I am the only one that thinks this (well maybe in this forum anyway).
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Post by Len90 » Mar Thu 19, 2009 9:15 pm

I am personally not in favor of this. I feel that it would be almost like a Six Flags on steroids. I really like the layout of the current parks with attractions that please everybody. There are a couple of thrill rides, a couple of relaxing rides and some iteractive ones. IMO, this is the best option for Disney to stick with.
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Post by spodie » Mar Thu 19, 2009 10:08 pm

Like the consensus, I don't think a thrill ride park would benefit Disney. Pleasure Island was sparsely attended; therefore, they closed it down and are going to put more family-friendly establishments in it's place. I think that Disney has already created a park that caters to teens/young adults in their own unique Disney way (which is to cater to a group, but also cater to other groups as well - I don't know how they do it - it's the magic of Disney!): Hollywood Studios.
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Post by Jacca5660 » Mar Thu 19, 2009 10:53 pm

spodie wrote:Like the consensus, I don't think a thrill ride park would benefit Disney. Pleasure Island was sparsely attended; therefore, they closed it down and are going to put more family-friendly establishments in it's place. I think that Disney has already created a park that caters to teens/young adults in their own unique Disney way (which is to cater to a group, but also cater to other groups as well - I don't know how they do it - it's the magic of Disney!): Hollywood Studios.
What does Pleasure Island have to do with a thrill ride park? Do you have teenagers? Mine find MGM boring, there are three rides they like in the park! For the comment "Six Flags on steroids", why did Disney build the AK? It was to compete with another Florida park. I personally find a lot of the comments on this subject misguided and short sighted. I wish some of the parents of teenagers here would voice their thoughts.
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Post by DisBeamer » Mar Fri 20, 2009 12:02 am

Jacca5660 wrote: What does Pleasure Island have to do with a thrill ride park? Do you have teenagers? Mine find MGM boring, there are three rides they like in the park! For the comment "Six Flags on steroids", why did Disney build the AK? It was to compete with another Florida park. I personally find a lot of the comments on this subject misguided and short sighted. I wish some of the parents of teenagers here would voice their thoughts.
Okay ... I don't have teens (or, in fact, any children :lol: ), but I think I see Jacca's point. Not everything in Disney is actually designed to cater to families with small children. I don't think the point of the parks was to ever cater to small children; it's supposed to be inclusive of most people. That's not really the same thing, though I admit it's a fine distinction.

If you think about it, though, there are a bunch of places on property that small children aren't really welcome, or expected to show up (Victoria and Albert's comes to mind, or any of the rollercoasters outside Toontown). Conversely, there are things in the parks that aren't really suited to adults (or older kids)... like ... say ... the Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground, or the ever-increasing number of splash areas that keep polluting... I mean keep popping up.

The whole 'where parents and children can have fun together' adage is valid, but it shouldn't be interpreted as 'parents of small children and small children only'. I don't really see the reasoning that a thrill park would only cater to teens (I'm 31; I'd go), or that a thrill park must inherently be devoid of attractions for small children (small children should be easier to thrill, right? See also: Goofy's Barnstormer). Assuming they'd go by lands again, I'm sure there'd be a scare-the-pants-off-your-kids land in there somewhere.

I'm not in favor of them building a thrill park, because if they're going to throw money at something I want it to be the existing properties and the sad state they're in. I do, however, think there's a huge potential market they could be tapping by building one, though, and if they put some effort into it, I think it'd be a cool park. I suspect there are a lot of people in the same boat as Jacca's family, that leave property to do other things when their kids get older. I'm sure that's not lost on the Disney bean counters, either. Of course, the fact that they've never done it makes me think that they've decided it's not profitable enough, which in turn makes me think they never will.
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Post by Captain Schnemo » Mar Fri 20, 2009 9:20 am

Most of what I was going to say has already been said.

I think the main thing is that a thrill park would create a non-Disney atmosphere that would further push it into a niche area. Islands of Adventure is a quality park, but it does have a certain shirtless beer-swilling element to the crowd that you don't see at Disney parks. If you eliminated the general interest attractions from the park and made it only for thrills, I think there would be a lot more of these people, and it would turn off the vast majority of potential customers...particularly those that choose to vacation in Orlando. It would be next to impossible to make it "magical".

Another excellent point is that thrill rides are very expensive. As has been said, Disney doesn't even properly maintain its existing parks, so pouring tons of money into attraction design, construction, advertising, etc. just to create a park that will repel anyone with small children (or grandparents) is not a good use of limited resources.

There will always be some attractions in any given park that don't appeal to absolutely everyone, but the idea of an entire park dedicated to an exclusive customer base is antithetical to the concept of the Disney theme park.

I am pulling this from a website of questionable accuracy, but here's why Walt created Disneyland:
Walter Elias Disney wrote:It came about when my daughters were very young and Saturday was always daddy’s day with the two daughters. So we’d start out and try to go someplace, you know, different things, and I’d take them to the merry-go-round and did all these things – sit on a bench, you know, eating peanuts – I felt that there should be something built where parents and the children could have fun together. So that’s how Disneyland started. Well, it took many year… it was a period of maybe 15 years developing. I started with many ideas, threw them away, started all over again. And eventually it evolved into what you see today at Disneyland. But it all started out from a daddy with two daughters wondering where he could take them where he could have a little fun with them, too.
Personally, I love roller coasters, but I think they are more at home in a place like Marvel Island at IOA. I don't want to think of the Hulk and Disney in the same thought, really.

I suppose it's possible that just slapping the name "Disney" on it would keep away the shirtless beer-swillers, but that would limit potential customers even further. The net result would be that the most expensive park would have the smallest number of guests.

The night park would be a smaller endeavor that falls into a different category, like a water park, a sports-themed center, a golf course, etc. Those are definitely not for everyone, but if you don't care about them, you can happily ignore them and not feel like you're missing anything.

If there are five proper theme parks, you're going to want to see them all, and if you start off with one that has nothing you're into, it's going to leave a very bad taste in your mouth. I have friends who visited Islands of Adventure for the first time during the Halloween nights. This limited park hours, so they missed a lot of things. They came back at night and it was both packed and not to their liking. They will always think of IOA as that really crowded place where they had a bad time.

If Disney does (or at least did) anything right, it was producing the kind of place where virtually anyone could be entertained. When they've strayed from this, they have largely failed.

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Post by packwingfn » Mar Fri 20, 2009 11:25 am

At the same time, the thing that makes Disney great is that Disney should be for everyone. However that doesn't mean target one thing...families. Their are plenty of people who enjoy Disney that don't have families. Plenty of couples, single people (like myself) who don't have kids who would like to still enjoy the parks for what they are, and not have "family" things shoved down our throats. Yes I know it's Disney but there are and were still plenty of things that non-families could enjoy in the past...why change it now and focus on only one market?
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Post by Jacca5660 » Mar Fri 20, 2009 11:34 am

You could also add "FAMILIES" with TEENAGERS to this list. Why does it have to be families with just small kids. They do grow up! I find it a little insulting to have this equated with the "the shirtless beer-swillers"! I keep my shirt on darn it!! Note DARN is not how I wrote it, is was more in line with something that holds back water!
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Post by theBIGyowski » Mar Fri 20, 2009 11:59 am

"What we meant to do here is to really develop something that...uh...well just more than an entertainment enterprise...it's uh...it's something that uh...contributes in many other ways...well...educationally...and uh...one thing is that to me...the important thing is the family...and if you can keep that family together with things...and that's...been the backbone of our whole business...catering to the families." -- Walter Elias Disney

I agree that families with older kids need stuff they can do...but if they aren't having fun at Disney...it's their fault...not Disney's. Nothing wrong with a little discussion session though...I think it's awesome that we talk about things like this! :D

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Post by Peerless83 » Mar Fri 20, 2009 12:07 pm

so if we are going to look at how Walt viewed his original plans for his parks..to what the company is currently doing...I would then like to pose this question to everyone (maybe it should be a new thread)...

If Walt were to rise from his grave and look at how the company is currently being ran...do you think he would be happy, sad, angry, none of the above??

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Post by theBIGyowski » Mar Fri 20, 2009 12:13 pm

I think he would be all three.

Happy because they continue to reach out to families and provide happiness to everyone around the world.

Sad because many things were never "plussed" but were cheapened or torn down.

Angry because for a while, and maybe still, his company cared more about money than anything else...including the family.

Things change...naturally...but let them change for the better. That was Walt's idea for Tomorrowland...and on a grand scale...EPCOT. I think overall things have changed for the better...but that doesn't mean it's perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
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Post by purple figment » Mar Fri 20, 2009 12:19 pm

I think Peerless has a new thread, there.

As far as jaccas comments, they are right. Teenagers probably do find Disney parks boring (as many teenagers always have). That's why they should add more teenage-friendly attractions to their existing parks, rather than make a park that primarily appeals to teenagers and young adults. I am sure that many families with teens also have younger kids. Many young adults who like rolleroasters have young children, too. The idea is to try and include everyone.

Don't get me wrong, my favorite attractions at Disney are the thrill attractions, and I do enjoy rollercoasters, I am just not convinced that this is the right move for Disney. (Although, if they build it, I would go....)

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Post by Jacca5660 » Mar Fri 20, 2009 1:06 pm

Peerless83 wrote:so if we are going to look at how Walt viewed his original plans for his parks..to what the company is currently doing...I would then like to pose this question to everyone (maybe it should be a new thread)...

If Walt were to rise from his grave and look at how the company is currently being ran...do you think he would be happy, sad, angry, none of the above??
YOU need to start another thread on this and get the credit for it. It would be very interesting to hear what everyone thinks! 8-)
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Post by Captain Schnemo » Mar Fri 20, 2009 1:32 pm

Jacca5660 wrote:I find it a little insulting to have this equated with the "the shirtless beer-swillers"!
I'm not saying everyone who likes thrill rides is tactless lout, I'm saying that those kind of parks attract that element, which has a feedback effect of making customers think that's what the park is all about.

IOA is nothing like a Six Flags and they've spent a lot of money and effort on theming, but it still attracts the sort of person that Disney probably doesn't want associated with their parks. Or at least it encourages people who might behave themselves in a regular Disney park to behave differently.

It's not a huge problem at IOA, and it's not the majority of the customers by a long shot, but it is definitely noticeable.

I love IOA and have been there many times, but it's a completely different feeling from Disney. In a way, that's good.

There are definitely some things Disney should not sell, at least not with the Disney name attached. Tarantino put out some great violent and expletive-filled movies under a Disney subsidiary, but they didn't have the Disney name on them. We have been spared a Mr. Blonde walkaround (although that would probably be pretty cool).

If Disney wants to build a thrill park, I don't think it should be in Walt Disney World. Maybe they should just buy Six Flags and clean it up a little.

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Post by domarino » Mar Fri 20, 2009 3:29 pm

I like the idea of adding one or two more thrill rides per park. It would be just the right combination of attractions for parents, young children, and teens!

I don't think they should shoot for and Islands of Adventure type park.

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