What EPCOT refurb never should have happened?

[jmenjes]

The original JII.

[rmorton50]

I chose JII, but really I miss the whole imagination pavilion. What happened to all of those neat things to see, and do, and try out? There's nothing in the pavilion anymore, except the 3D movie and a ride that doesn't really say anything. There's a lot of room for some real imagination here.

[wdwstevenb]

I have to admit, I was conflicted...

I have come to enjoy the effects of the new Seas with Nemo and Friends, but I miss the opening movie. OK- sure, it was dated. And it was 80's version of the future. BUT- the music, the welcoming to Sea Base Alpha and the Hydrolators.

[Mr.ToadWildRider]

With polls like this I'm always torn between JII and Horizons. These were probably the two most important concepts in all of epcot. As much as I hate M:S, it's probably a technological step forward whereas. JII, an attraction dedicated to creative thinking took a step back. Way back.

I couldn't agree more with this statement. Although, I will say I think that Disney tried to make both technological steps forward, it's just the JII failed. M:S is just no where near as inspirational and awe inspiring as Horizons. Did Horizons have flashy technology? No, not particularly, but it had elaborate sets, a clear story, and character which is was M:S lacks. M:S is just a cold, computerized thrill ride, whereas Horizons felt more like art.

I'd love to hate on Test Track more for killing WoM, which was a childhood favorite. That slow spiral upwards with that view of SSE always got me so excited knowing that I'd soon be in the show building. Thinking of the countless children of all ages who are deprived of scenes of glowing footprints on the walls, Columbus staring a sea serpent in the eye, DaVinci playing with his inventions while Mona Lisa sits completely disgruntled, etc. all make me sad. But Test Track is at least fun.

Wonders of Life in inexcusable. I think Sea Base Alpha to Big Blue World is a slap in the face of EPCOT Center, but to be honest we used to skip Sea Base Alpha/Living Seas like 90% of the time. The only thing I ever liked about it was the pre-show film and the manatees. Being from Boston, with the New England Aquarium, most aquariums are a little boring. I loved Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks, but how can I hate on Soarin'? I haven't been on Gran Fiesta but I loved Rio del Tiempo and am sure I'll miss it.

AND Epcot should still at least be EPCOT - it's an acronym for cryin' out loud. It's not the Usa it's USA it's not Nasa it's NASA it's not Byob it's BYOB![/i]

[Mr.ToadWildRider]

With polls like this I'm always torn between JII and Horizons. These were probably the two most important concepts in all of epcot. As much as I hate M:S, it's probably a technological step forward whereas. JII, an attraction dedicated to creative thinking took a step back. Way back.

I couldn't agree more with this statement. Although, I will say I think that Disney tried to make both technological steps forward, it's just the JII failed. M:S is just no where near as inspirational and awe inspiring as Horizons. Did Horizons have flashy technology? No, not particularly, but it had elaborate sets, a clear story, and character which is was M:S lacks. M:S is just a cold, computerized thrill ride, whereas Horizons felt more like art.

I'd love to hate on Test Track more for killing WoM, which was a childhood favorite. That slow spiral upwards with that view of SSE always got me so excited knowing that I'd soon be in the show building. Thinking of the countless children of all ages who are deprived of scenes of glowing footprints on the walls, Columbus staring a sea serpent in the eye, DaVinci playing with his inventions while Mona Lisa sits completely disgruntled, etc. all make me sad. But Test Track is at least fun.

Wonders of Life in inexcusable. I think Sea Base Alpha to Big Blue World is a slap in the face of EPCOT Center, but to be honest we used to skip Sea Base Alpha/Living Seas like 90% of the time. The only thing I ever liked about it was the pre-show film and the manatees. Being from Boston, with the New England Aquarium, most aquariums are a little boring. I loved Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks, but how can I hate on Soarin'? I haven't been on Gran Fiesta but I loved Rio del Tiempo and am sure I'll miss it.

AND Epcot should still at least be EPCOT - it's an acronym for cryin' out loud. It's not the Usa it's USA it's not Nasa it's NASA it's not Byob it's BYOB

[KAJUNKING]

its tough to argue at this point that the wonders of life pavillion is the bigest waste of space @ disney except mabey for dinoland

[Admiral01]

I just got back from a week at WDW, where I spend Monday night, all of Tuesday, Thursday afternoon, and Friday afternoon at EPCOT. I was wrong about The Seas with Nemo and Friends. It isn't just a mistake, it was terrible. Terrible. I will never go into the Living Seas again unless it is changed. I got to ride Soarin' for the first (and second) time, and it was wonderful. Actually brought a tear to my eye the scenery and music was so beautiful. Jerry Goldsmith did a fantastic job of scoring the 5 minute film. Mexico isn't a big change, still relaxing. UoE does need a more scientific update. WoL is just sitting there waiting for my "New Horizons" installation SSE with Judi Dench wasn't as bad as the narration sounds. The narration isn't as good as Jeremy Irons or good old Walter, but it was still good. Imagination was boring. We did do the Behind the Seeds tour at The Land. Excellent tour. I like science, and it was a good bit of science. The Food and Wine Festival was fantastic (as always).

Question for the group: I thought the new Imagination ride was "Journey into Your Imagination." The original ride was called "Journey into Imagination." But, the sign in front of the pavillion says "Journey Into Imagination." Did I miss something?

[boilerbabe]

I just got back from a week at WDW, where I spend Monday night, all of Tuesday, Thursday afternoon, and Friday afternoon at EPCOT. I was wrong about The Seas with Nemo and Friends. It isn't just a mistake, it was terrible. Terrible. I will never go into the Living Seas again unless it is changed.

Just curious, what is it that you dislike so much about Nemo and Friends?!

[js3901]

Question for the group: I thought the new Imagination ride was "Journey into Your Imagination." The original ride was called "Journey into Imagination." But, the sign in front of the pavillion says "Journey Into Imagination." Did I miss something?

you did miss something. See the Wiki article for full details. The basic version is this:

there have been 3 different versions of the ride. Journey into Imagination was the original. in 1998, a refurb made it Journey Into YOUR Imagination, which removed Figment/Dreamfinder and brought in Eric Idle. in 2002, it was changed again and became Journey into Imagination with Figment, which is the version we know today.

[zdog]

I never saw Captain EO, but I gotta tell you, I was never more bored in my life than when I saw "Honey I Shrunk the Audience". It was painful.

[Future Guy]

Although I miss Horizons terribly and it kills me to see Wonders of Life sitting vacant, I picked Journey Into Imagination. (although it's cool to see that other folks have thought of using the neglected WOL pavilion for a new Horizons)

Unlike the other pavilions that were changed because their shows had aged and attendance was dropping off, JII was very well attended. Sure, the show needed some minor upgrades (imagine a state-of-the-art animatronic Figment of the same caliber as Stitch in Tomorrowland for the last scene) but it was a real classic. From what I've read, the driving force behind the decision to rip out the pavilion's innards was that the corporate bean-counters wanted an attraction that was cheaper to operate. So they cut the length of the ride from 11 minutes to 5 and installed a obviously slipshod replacement that looks to be built from pieces of defunct attractions. Speaking as a customer who pays good money to come to the Disney parks, it's offensive.

And even if management has "seen the light", as is rumored, and eventually restores the pavilion to its former glory, they've spent far more money on all these damaging refurbs that they would have had they just given the original ride the maintenance and slight retouching it needed.

[cousininmiami]

I really miss Horizon's. This was Disney World to me. It was always the first place we went to. My grown children still remember the "orange" smell when you would get to the the desert scene. It should still be there!!!

[Future Guy]

Horizons represented the pinnacle of Disney Imagineering at the time. Mission:SPACE is probably as great a technological achievement now as Horizons was in 1983, but as another poster noted above, it's got no heart. I wrote a blog post about this recently, but in brief have you ever noticed the phrase "we choose to go" in the Mission:SPACE logo? It's taken from a 1962 speech by JFK that was probably one of the most inspirational pieces of oratory of the last hundred years. If Disney would inject more of that message into Mission:SPACE, it would give the pavilion the heart it's been lacking.

As for the Seas pavilion, I can't get too upset about that because the old attraction was just a drastically cheapened version of what WED Imagineering originally planned. Still, I find it a little disturbing that Disney apparently believes that actual sea life isn't sufficiently interesting and needs to have cartoon fish inserted in among it. I'd feel better about it if Disney used the opportunity to educate kids on how human activities are damaging Nemo's world, but there doesn't seem to be much of that. I certainly appreciate the technical wizardry of the new ride and Turtle Talk, though. And it is nice to see the Seas pavilion full of people again. Before the Nemo rehab, it was dead.

I agree with a lot of the folks who don't like Honey, I Shrunk the Audience, but at least they got rid of Captain EO. After all, nothing could be less kid-friendly than Michael Jackson. It'd be nice to see a new film in there, though.

Y'know, if Disney is going to keep adding Pixar characters to Future World, what about WALL-E? That movie's message would be a great fit at EPCOT. I'm not saying I necessarily approve of adding more licensed Disney characters to EPCOT, (except Dreamfinder, they can bring him back any time!) but if it's inevitable, then I'd rather see WALL-E than the cast of CARS.

[Admiral01]

My real problem with the Seas now is how totally absent of science it is. The Nemo portion of the ride could easily have fit in the Magic Kingdom...you don't even realize that the building the ride is in used to be the largest indoor aquarium in the world. You don't even see real fish until like 30 seconds before the ride is over. I understand Disney's need to entertain kids, but the purpose of EPCOT was to entertain and educate. As the Seas is now, there is absolutly no education value in the ride, and much less than before in the area that was SeaBase Alpha.

[DisBeamer]

I just got back from a week at WDW, where I spend Monday night, all of Tuesday, Thursday afternoon, and Friday afternoon at EPCOT. I was wrong about The Seas with Nemo and Friends. It isn't just a mistake, it was terrible. Terrible. I will never go into the Living Seas again unless it is changed.

Just curious, what is it that you dislike so much about Nemo and Friends?!

I agree with the Admiral's sentiments, though I wouldn't say I won't go into the Living Seas again. I'll just go in through the back door like I usually do.

It's not that I have a beef with Nemo and Friends as the characters themselves, but the 'attraction' they made there is pointless and, in many places, badly done (that angler fish that never seems to work, for instance).

I can't for the life of me understand why they chose to make the ride part the same thing as the movie in that environment. I understand their desire to interact with the kids, and really, I wouldn't have an issue with the set up of the ride if they'd just done something creative with it. I also understand that a lot of the beloved old classic dark rides are just rehashing the movie, and I wouldn't find it as upsetting if this was a dark ride chillin' in Fantasyland.

But why make it a rehash of the movie when you could use that overlay tech to do something really creative? Why couldn't Nemo and his buddies be pointing out stuff in the tanks rather than doing the same "oh no he's lost" schtick over again? I think Nemo and Friends as 'ambassadors' for the rest of the fish is a great idea with a lot of potential for sparking the little ones' curiosity without talking down to them (or to the adults).

I think all of that is probably the longest way possible to say that, as with so many of the recent developments by Imagineering, the tech is fantastic and the story/execution is lazy.