Disney's 5th gate rumored for 2011

HSolo29 · Post by **HSolo29** » Feb Mon 18, 2008 5:12 pm

Hmm...it's an interesting idea. A lot of the activities sound really neat but I'm not too keen on the operating hours and limiting the number of guests. I agree, it doesn't seem like something to warrant a 5th gate.

yodiwan1 · Post by **yodiwan1** » Feb Mon 18, 2008 10:21 pm

there is no way they would allow people to get clsoe enough to hippos to feed them. They are some of the mos tunpredicatable and dangerous animals you will find. Disney will make more money ina bigger park with cheaper prices. With all of the merchandise and food purchased, a bigger park would make more sense. On top of that, if it is a night time only park with obviouly less kids, i feel that sales will go down. Parents won't want to get babysitters all night long on a vacation , and if it is more for adults this will take away from their own business at PI. If Disney did this I would be truely disappointed, and would enver intend to go. I can take a backstage tour at my local zoo, which costs $30 a person and come face to face with plenty of animals.

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Feb Tue 19, 2008 8:03 am

HSolo29 wrote:I agree, it doesn't seem like something to warrant a 5th gate.

Calling it a "fifth gate" is just semantics. Discovery Cove is hardly a "second gate".

Assuming the activities are unique and appealing enough, it would easily be profitable beyond the executives' wildest dreams, particularly since they can always buoy attendance numbers with convention traffic, should that be necessary. On top of the high ticket price, they are guaranteeing themselves an upscale captive audience.

If it's not significantly different from what you can get at the Animal Kingdom (or even just visiting the AK Lodge), they could run into problems, but the Discovery Cove experience is extremely pleasant and attractive to those who value a break from the crowds.

The nighttime thing is a little questionable, since most hardcore parkers on vacation will be exhausted by midnight, but since this seems to have different demographic, that might not be an issue.

Sounds like money in the bank to me (although again a little disappointing that they are following instead of leading...but better to chase a good idea than a bad one!).

CDAbleson · Post by **CDAbleson** » Feb Tue 19, 2008 8:41 am

While the idea seems OK.....ultimately the price will prohibit the attendees, even beyond what they want......We are all spending plenty on our WDW vacations already....This additional cost would make this a "one time shot" for most people.....

lebeau · Post by **lebeau** » Feb Wed 20, 2008 8:15 am

I think a lot of people seem to be missing who the target audience is for this idea. This isn't aimed at everyone. The business model for this kind of "park" isn't the same as the existing parks. Disney isn't trying to pack the house. They want a limited number of people willing to pay top dollar for an "exclusive" experience.

Opening a "fifth gate" that is essentially a variation of the four existing gates doesn't make sense. Unless it caused people to extend their stays by another day, Disney has other ways to get a better return on their investment.

Something like Discovery Cove will allow Disney to make top dollar on a small number of customers. Especially those conventioners who are not traveling with family.

My brother goes to WDW every year as part of a competition he is involved in. He goes to the parks because he gets free tickets. But when I showed him this article, he said he would absolutely pay for this - regardless of the price.

Like Captain Schnemo said, if they do this right, it's money in the bank.

lebeau · Post by **lebeau** » Feb Wed 20, 2008 12:15 pm

http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jim_hill/ ... oblem.aspx

JHM's latest article further explains why Disney would be so excited to open a "niche" park.

To summarize at a high level, apparently WDW merchandise is on a downward trend. They believe that they can sell merchandise from their new, exclusive park to these high-income guests to reverse this trend.

Post by **rdeacon** » Feb Thu 21, 2008 8:00 am

Not selling enough merchandise? Really... I find that hard to believe as much as I spend there.. HAHHA

If they are having an issue selling merchandise, which I doubt given the crowds in World of Disney and the Emporium,etc, its because they currently have a very weak promotion. The current dreams campaign has been over extended and features very lack luster merchandise. I admittedly buy a lot of souvenirs, and I have to say I have not purchased one piece of "Year of a Million Dreams" merchandise. I just find the entire line of merchandise very lack luster and flat. I have bought a ton of other stuff of course.

As for the 5th gate. I would agree that its not really a true 5th gate, and more of a niche park. Since Discovery Cove is about the same price, and wildly popular, I don't see why Disney could not make money off a similar model. They should even improve the idea, and expand the concept to make it more of a themed experience.

I think the details might be a little sketchy at this point. The article kinda describes it like an AK at night, and not a true separate experience. I will wait to give final judgment when more details emerge.

Rich

lebeau · Post by **lebeau** » Feb Fri 22, 2008 9:10 am

rdeacon wrote:Not selling enough merchandise? Really... I find that hard to believe as much as I spend there.. HAHHA

If they are having an issue selling merchandise, which I doubt given the crowds in World of Disney and the Emporium,etc, its because they currently have a very weak promotion. The current dreams campaign has been over extended and features very lack luster merchandise. I admittedly buy a lot of souvenirs, and I have to say I have not purchased one piece of "Year of a Million Dreams" merchandise. I just find the entire line of merchandise very lack luster and flat. I have bought a ton of other stuff of course.

As for the 5th gate. I would agree that its not really a true 5th gate, and more of a niche park. Since Discovery Cove is about the same price, and wildly popular, I don't see why Disney could not make money off a similar model. They should even improve the idea, and expand the concept to make it more of a themed experience.

I think the details might be a little sketchy at this point. The article kinda describes it like an AK at night, and not a true separate experience. I will wait to give final judgment when more details emerge.

Rich

According to the article, the YoMD merchandise is a bust. But it is merely contributing to a slow downward turn that started a long time ago.

Interestingly enough, another contributor according to the article is those commercials advertising "affordable trips" for $1,600.00. People hear that and they don't budget for souveniers and things like that.

DisBeamer · Post by **DisBeamer** » Feb Fri 22, 2008 11:37 pm

lebeau wrote:According to the article, the YoMD merchandise is a bust. But it is merely contributing to a slow downward turn that started a long time ago.

I have to agree with Rich; I didn't buy any of the YoMD stuff either and I'm a sucker for Disney souvenirs. Just wasn't impressed with it.

I have to wonder a little if some of the downward trend isn't related to the fact they have very limited 'park specific' stuff these days. It's still there, but not to the same extent as it used to be; I remember even just a few years ago there was a lot of really nice MK-specific stuff and Epcot-specific, etc. Now it seems to me it's much more common to find the same '4 Parks' stuff everywhere. To say nothing of the fact they're, largely, putting all the same stuff in both DL and WDW (a somewhat different issue, but maybe a symptom of the same thing).

Post by **rdeacon** » Feb Thu 28, 2008 9:27 am

Disbeamer is right. There has been a great deal of "generalization" of the merchandise to a 4 park feel. There used to be a great amount of choices in the parks for park specific merchandise, especially t-shirts. Now there are a few choices, and they have been the same designs for a few years. I personally buy a lot of t-shirts. But the last few trips not so many. Since they have either lackluster designs, or the same design they had the last time I was there, I have reduced my t-shirt per trip ratio.

I will say some of the retro designs are cool. But new cool merchandise is too few and far between lately.

Rich

boilerbabe · Post by **boilerbabe** » Mar Sat 01, 2008 6:21 pm

Isn't Disney opening their resort in Hawaii in 2011??? I would think they'd space things out, or maybe WDW and a location in Hawaii wouldn't effect eachother?!

lebeau · Post by **lebeau** » Mar Mon 03, 2008 1:15 pm

boilerbabe wrote:Isn't Disney opening their resort in Hawaii in 2011??? I would think they'd space things out, or maybe WDW and a location in Hawaii wouldn't effect eachother?!

I couldn't tell you if they will impact each other or not.

I've seen this rumor elsewhere with a 2012 opening date. So, it may happen later than sooner if it ever happens at all.

Cheshire Cat · Post by **Cheshire Cat** » Mar Mon 03, 2008 3:05 pm

Maybe this idea isn't really planned for WDW, but an area in the Hawaiian Resort? I've only seen any news of it on JHM. Although he gets a lot of inside stuff sometimes his context is wrong (if he even gets something right at all).

lucygilligan · Post by **lucygilligan** » Mar Mon 03, 2008 9:06 pm

If Disney goes through with this, I would be really surprised. I can see people being mad about being shut out of a park for the night just because they want to limit the amount of people allowed into the park.

I would be very interested however, on how this could possibly turn out. This could be better than I think.

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Mar Tue 04, 2008 2:14 am

lucygilligan wrote:I can see people being mad about being shut out of a park for the night just because they want to limit the amount of people allowed into the park.

The plan would be to make it appointment-only, so no one would arrive at the gate unless they had a ticket. Just taking the first 1,000 people who show up would be a recipe for disaster, on a nightly basis.