Declining by Degrees

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Jan Fri 12, 2007 9:32 pm

There used to be this crazy old dude named Walter who did that...

GhostHost · Post by **GhostHost** » Jan Sat 13, 2007 12:22 am

Captain Schnemo wrote:There used to be this crazy old dude named Walter who did that...

Yeah, it really makes you wonder what WDW and DL would be like today if Walt had lived another 10 or 20 years.

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Jan Fri 19, 2007 11:02 am

rdeacon wrote:Kevin Yee has posted another installment of his Declining By Degrees column

http://www.miceage.com/kevinyee/ky122806a.htm

I know I'm running a couple issues behind now, but I wanted to say that I thought this one was much better than the first one. For the most part, he stuck to concrete issues that inarguably need to be fixed. These are the things where nerds like us can actually have some impact.

Pictures of chipping paint are embarrassing even to WDW suits.

Al Lutz started this way and, once he gained credibility (or something like it) with corporate Disney, it seemed that the Internet community was as least acknowledged, if not always placated.

I see this as a positive step, with great potential. Props to Kevin for sticking with it.

Post by **subsonic** » Jan Fri 19, 2007 11:55 am

I think Captain Schnemo should start a blog.

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Jan Fri 19, 2007 12:52 pm

Ohhh no. Captain Schnemo has been tricked into doing lots of work to try to improve WDW in the past and Captain Schnemo didn't make a dent.

Captain Schnemo is also happy to have his free time back.

I do post on a couple blogs and when I suggested that maybe people try to channel all that energy into actually making a difference in the real world, the reaction was as if I had just insulted their mothers.

Besides, I wouldn't be a very credible blogger, given that I haven't actually been to the parks in almost 10 years now. I pay attention to what's going on, but I wouldn't be a fair judge of new attractions (although you don't need to go to the parks to know that Monsters, Inc. doesn't belong in Tomorrowland, but whatever).

The thing I've noticed about Disney people is that you can't get most of them to do much of anything, except grouse in places that Disney management considers nothing but hives of fanboy lunacy. There is a lot of talk, but when it comes down to it, if it's too much work, most people won't do anything.

I mean, that's totally fair. Who has time to argue with a giant corporation when the kids need to get to soccer practice and the lawn is threatening to overgrow the mailbox? Still, it doesn't make the process any less frustrating.

And, if I do say so myself, we Disney geeks are strange bunch, most of us looking quite out of place in business attire and unable to communicate ideas about Disney to normal civilians without appearing as mad as a hatter, so to speak.

It's a tough game, since the product is "magic", but the people responsible for maintaining it wouldn't recognize magic if it bit them in the crotch, and probably don't really believe that it exists.

Another point that I've made here before is that even the harshest critics of Disney typically still visit the parks several times each year, buying food, souvenirs, annual passes, and all the other things that invalidate the grousing.

Not that I'm suggesting a Disney boycott (an Epcott?) would have the slightest impact, other than making us look even crazier, but it highlights the futility of the whole process.

Post by **rdeacon** » Jan Fri 19, 2007 3:52 pm

Well put Schnemo

I can admit I am way to addicted to WDW to ever boycott (epcott?!?).

Just makes me sad that sometimes Disney looses focus on what Walt instilled. Maybe its a circular process... they hire an Un-Disney like management that has to run its course till some one wakes up. Seems like that happened in Disneyland, which seems to have had a revitalization lately. This of course should never happen, but sadly its has, and seems like is continuing.

Guess we will have to take our lumps and hope the hire people who want to think like Walt.

Rich

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Jan Sat 20, 2007 10:20 am

bdinger wrote:Did you used to run a site or something?

Something like that...

Whatever happened to wdwblues.com? I remember thinking that was a great idea (actually, Al Lutz had done a similar thing earlier for Disneyland, but no one had taken a real crack at WDW). Did they actually fix the things that were highlighted? Did the author just become exhausted and give up?

As they say, you can't fight City Hall.

Post by **subsonic** » Jan Mon 22, 2007 11:55 am

rdeacon wrote:Just makes me sad that sometimes Disney looses focus on what Walt instilled. Maybe its a circular process... they hire an Un-Disney like management that has to run its course till some one wakes up. Seems like that happened in Disneyland, which seems to have had a revitalization lately. This of course should never happen, but sadly its has, and seems like is continuing.

Really, what we've been saying for years has finally hit Disney. They cut corners too much (declined by degrees?) and once they stepped back to see what they have done it was too late. I believe Disney is starting to making up for it. I think things ARE getting better but there's a long way to go. I'm a huge ride freak. So of course that's where I feel Disney should start. I've said it before, there's some amazing technology out there. They need to utilize it and be original.

In ways, I think they need to take a stroll through Islands of Adventure. Spiderman the Ride is a technical marvel (no pun intended) and I can't stop raving about it. The theming is constant from right when you enter and through all the queues. IOA really stepped up and this is what I remember Disney being like.

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Jan Tue 23, 2007 3:49 am

Yeah, Spider-Man friggin' blows anything Disney's done in ages out of the water. I actually love the theming of the whole Marvel Island, as well as a couple other islands there. From what I understand, a number of disgruntled Imagineers jumped ship and worked on Islands of Adventure and (for the most part) it shows.

Pity that not much else comes close to Spider-Man in terms of immersiveness, but I'd have to rank IOA above Epcot at this point, which really just bums me out. If I didn't like thrill rides, I'd have to rank it a bit lower, but there are some seriously great things there. Epcot is just plain depressing now.

Spider-Man is actually much as I imagined the Ghostbusters attraction at Universal Studios would be after hearing just a couple of snippets about the technology, but that thing turned out to be just butt awful.

Getting back to the point, Spider-Man should be the baseline for any big-time Disney attraction by now, but they haven't even matched it yet, much less surpassed it.

As for the concept of the circular process, at WDW at least, it started at a plateau, held it for a while, started drifting down slowly and now they are in complete freefall. I suppose this could be the beginning of a really, really big circle, but we've got a long way to go.

I've read about Disneyland's improvements recently, and that's good to see (although taking away the Skyway and the People Mover really sucks a lot of the energy out of the place), but WDW is wholly different animal and thus far has not benefitted from any alleged change of heart.

Post by **js3901** » Jan Tue 23, 2007 6:31 am

Schnemo, I'd have to disagree with you to a point.

Yeah, Spider-Man friggin' blows anything Disney's done in ages out of the water.

Expedition Everest is a kick ass ride with some great theming. The only real complaint I have is the back side of the mountain that you can see from the road (as discussed in another thread). At least with this one attraction, the imagineers have a little vision left.

Now if we can just stop them from making WDW into one big Pixarland...

packwingfn · Post by **packwingfn** » Jan Tue 23, 2007 12:13 pm

The new article about the Princess and Pirates party was interesting. The lighting looked awesome!

weluvmovies.com · Post by **weluvmovies.com** » Jan Tue 23, 2007 3:39 pm

The whole experience and what puts Disney in a whole different category as theme parks go, IS their attention to small details and cleanliness. If this isn't preserved it's certain that things will keep depreciating in the quality... you may even start finding cast members not smiling!

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Jan Tue 23, 2007 7:03 pm

js3901 wrote:Expedition Everest is a kick ass ride with some great theming.

It's not particularly innovative, though. It's just a well-themed rollercoaster that does a couple tricks which have been done elsewhere. (I haven't actually been on the attraction, but I've seen the video. It does look fun.)

The great Disney attractions over the years usually took advantage of either cutting edge tech or used old tech in brand new ways.

Unless I'm missing something Everest seems to be just the Matterhorn plus Paris Indy, with a nice queue. Spider-Man basically reinvents the dark ride and opens up new worlds of possibility.

Post by **subsonic** » Jan Wed 24, 2007 12:11 pm

I think the backwards part is fairly innovative. The Yeti is amazing. I love the attraction and it was cause for a return visit on another day. I remember coming off the ride and the two things I talked about were the backwards part and the Yeti. The ride is wonderful and packed with detail. It's the quality I expect from Disney.

It's nothing like Spider-man. Spider-man was the best attraction during my whole visit. I must have said "wow" over 10 times during Spider-man. Usually I can figure out how theme parks produce certain effects. Spider-man left me awestruck. We went out of our way to go to Universal for Spider-man and it was worth it. Disney used to be the leader in amazing attractions. They have been surpassed. I don't know why they aren't thinking, "we need to top this from now on". Stupid Disney building "on the cheap".

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Jan Wed 24, 2007 12:28 pm

The Paris Indy coaster goes backwards and the Matterhorn has the Yeti (although it's not nearly as cool, as you know). So, I think the ride is good in that it takes existing things and does them better. A lot of Disney stuff is all about that. The Yeti is actually a nice homage to a classic attraction, so I sort of dig that.

But, yeah, in terms of creating a whole new kind of experience that's great for the entire family, you just can't beat Spider-Man. I think the last thing that came close was probably Disneyland's Indy, which has been sort of copied at Universal Studios Orlando with the Mummy ride. (Fun, but not really in same league as Indy.)

I've commented before that one of the best jobs in IOA has got to be the attendant at the end of Spider-Man, because no one is in a bad mood at that point.

They also actually do a reasonably good job of maintaining Spider-Man. If an effect isn't working on the first day of a trip, it's almost always fixed the next day. Contrast that with Disney attractions where they'll actually let guests ride when the flesh is hanging off an audio-animatronic, exposing the gruesome metal and plastic guts underneath.

IOA is far from perfect, but they are least making the attempt. Disney should really be embarrassed that anyone can even talk about a Universal park in the same breath as one of their own.