New Orleans the harsh reality

[rich]

Should billions of dollars be spent to rebuild a city so close to the ocean and be under sea level? I see this as a huge waste of money. Lets face it, they got away with it for a long time. Cities are lost to the ocean in history like Alexandrea of Egypt, this might be the next city to be a lost cause.

[Club33Hopeful]

I don't think they should build public infrastructure right next to the ocean and below sea level. That just does not make sense. However, they probably will. My biggest concern though is this: I think FEMA and insurance should not cover the people who ignored the evacuation orders and then had to be rescued. I think forfeiting their rights in lieu of making them pay for emergency services to rescue them is successful. Just think for a moment of the following costs:

* The cost of rescuing people who stayed.
* The cost of looting - the police said they cannot deal with the looting until all of the people are rescued. If people had left, they could be dealing with the looters from day one. Many of the looters are the people who didn't leave and now feel that they have to loot because there is no food and water.
* The cost of damage to property for the people who didn't leave. For every family that ignored the warnings, that is at least one more damaged vehicle and family valuables, as most families take these with them when they evacuate.
* The cost of healthcare for all of those who didn't leave (which is much higher in a disaster than the normal high cost of healthcare).
* The cost of now having to shuttle all of those people from the Superdome to the Astrodome in Houston, plus the cost to feed all of them.

[Club33Hopeful]

Too add to the last post, if they want to build in the same location, they should lose their rights to future FEMA dollars from the same type of disaster. Likewise, I am sure insurance rates will skyrocket, as they should.

This is a long standing gripe of mine. Up in Northern California, the Russian River floods virtually every year around Guerneville. Everyone in Northern California knows this as we hear it every year when it happens. They continually get funds to rebuild, and they continually rebuild in the same darn spots. Guess what happens next year? As a tax payer, I hate funding other people's stupidity!

[a2grafix]

At the start of the new year I will be in this region for a military class. I have been told by some military friends of mine that the air force base I am supposed to attend class does not look good and that many of the students and staff are now staying in the emergency hurricane shelter through this week.

There is another base north that suffered damage as well, but thankfully no one from either base was hurt of killed.

I wonder if the Gulfport-Biloxi-New Orleans region will be somewhat cleaned up when I get down there? Wonder if the region, in a way, is now like the tsunami revaged region near Bande Ache and will never really recover? Wonder what the NCAA will do if the Superdome cannot be used for the annual Sugar Bowl game?

Just some random thoughts. Time will tell all.

I work in the news media and I am just ... wow.

[Disneynut]

I disagree, first I think we need to realize why the location of New Orleans is important. New Orleans has direct access to both the gulf of Mexico and the Mississippi river making it an ideal place for a shipping port. I'm sure there are many reasons why the city should be rebuilt, I will list two for you right now..
1. New Orleans is the largest port in the U.S. and second only to Rotterdam in the worldwide value of foreign commerce and total waterborne commerce.
2. Over 6,000 ships from 60 countries dock here every year, and the port handles an average of 11.2 million tons of cargo volume each year.
The port of New Orleans handles billions in cargo and goods every day, in my opinion the goverment should do everything possible to restore the function of this port and city asap.

As far as the evacuation orders go, I believe that most of the people followed orders given by the local authorities. It was ovbvious that most of the people stuck in the metro area did not have the means to evacuate and were forced to ride out the storm at the super dome or at home.

I feel bad for those people, most of them lost everthing they had and have no place to go. Just as we did for Hurricane Charly my wife and I plan to make a large donation to the Red Cross.
Our thoughts and prayers go out to the people affected by this storm.

[Club33Hopeful]

First, rebuilding the port, and rebuilding the neighborhoods below sea level are two different things entirely. I completely agree that the port needs to be rebuilt.

I disagree with the evactuation orders statement. I was watching the news channels last night, and many people said they they wish they would have heeded the warnings. They said that they did not believe it would be this bad, because the last time they were told to evacuate, the storm hardly did anything. All of the people who had no place to go and no means to go anywhere were provided ample opportunity to be taken to a shelter. This is abolutely no excuse for the people who stayed behind in their homes. The FEMA guy speaking last night on the news said that transportation and shelter was offered to everyone that did not have the means.

I do feel bad for the people as well, and I would like to help out. However, after witnessing the Loma Prieta earthquake in 1989 from the Marina district in San Francisco, I would not offer dime one to the red cross. They came in, they helped, and as soon as the news was gone and the story profile died down, they left. It was St. Vincent de Paul and the Salvation Army that really picked up the pieces and helped people get on their feet.

[rich]

Then perhaps a massive undertaking needs to happen to build the city above sea level with proper drainage and not pumps. Shipping is very important sure. So lets dredge the the Mississippi to create a new protected area from the gulf for them to pull ships into. If Japan can make a airport in the ocean surely we could reland scape the mouth of the river.

[Disneynut]

Then perhaps a massive undertaking needs to happen to build the city above sea level with proper drainage and not pumps. Shipping is very important sure. So lets dredge the the Mississippi to create a new protected area from the gulf for them to pull ships into. If Japan can make a airport in the ocean surely we could reland scape the mouth of the river.

Yes, a massive undertaking but may be necessary. I'm sure it can be done. This can't happen again!

[Club33Hopeful]

So the real question is, if the build it back the same, and the same thing happens ten years from now, should they be allowed federal funds then?

[js3901]

this was just posted on MSN today:

New Orleans mayor fears thousands dead
New Orleans mayor fears thousands dead
‘Total evacuation’ is necessary, he says; 25,000 evacuees to go to Houston

the articles goes on to say that the city will not be functional for 2 or 3 months, and the Army Corps of Engineers is working to plug the levees.

[jrcohen]

Then perhaps a massive undertaking needs to happen to build the city above sea level with proper drainage and not pumps. Shipping is very important sure. So lets dredge the the Mississippi to create a new protected area from the gulf for them to pull ships into. If Japan can make a airport in the ocean surely we could reland scape the mouth of the river.

The problem with this is that the land the city is built is sinking every year. When NO was first built it was much closer to sea level then it is now. Even if they try to relandscape the land to bring it back up to sea level, which would cost billions if not trillions, b/c of the Mississippi delta itself, it would just sink again. Erosion causes the mud delta to slide every year, so it will only lower itself back down. There is really no good answer. It would be almost impossible to raise the city or move it to another location. Think about how long it took NO to become as large as it is, then think about having to move it to another location, it really can't be done.

[Club33Hopeful]

It would be almost impossible to raise the city or move it to another location. Think about how long it took NO to become as large as it is, then think about having to move it to another location, it really can't be done.

That is true for the downtown area. However, every single home that is under water, which is almost all of them, will have to be completely torn down and rebuilt. Why can they not build immediately on the north side of Lake Pontchartrain? They could run lightrail or some other mass transit along the causeway that they need to rebuild anyway. I don't have a problem if they rebuild on the same site. I do have a problem if they rebuild on the same site and want tax payer dollars to help out when it happens again.

[Club33Hopeful]

I just thought of something when reading about how they are going to have a hell of a time trying to evacuate all of those people by bus when there are no un-flooded roads into the city... One more point for monorails! If they had a monorail where the beamway was built above flood level (sea level) then they would have a good means for evacuation. And before someone points out that the power is out, they regularly pull out-of-commision trains with diesel tugs.

[G2-4T]

Yeah, it is a mess down there. The sad thing is that there was no preperation. The majority of those that sought refuge in the city were the poor and old, those who could not leave because they rely on mass transit [so it gets you to the edge of town, now what do you do?] - in other situations like this you see buses oraganized in advance and people meeting on street corners to ride out of the city. Something orderly and timely, not this chaos. And do not believe everything FEMA says, we've seen them up here before [we get our share of tornados and floods] - if you take all the gov't tells you then I have a bridge to sell you... The efforts to help transport people was at most to shelters that promptly flooded - not out of town to real safety. This was and still is mayhem - and pretty embarrassing since the US always rags on other countries and their relief efforts yet we can't do it ourself...

Another thing, the Corps asked for money to fix and rebuild the levees last year during the hurricane season knowing that they had already sunk 4+ feet below where they should be and could barely handle a Catagory 4 hurricane even if they were in good shape. Don't worry though - the brains at the white house vetoed it and gave them less than a quarter of what they needed. And now they are dragging their feet on relief, mobilizing this weekend when they could have been on alert last weekend and ready to go Tuesday is pretty late when so many lives are at stake [if you get a chance read the papers from places like Biloxi and NO - they paint a much different and more realistic picture than CNN and the likes on fed. aid].

The fact that is was built below sea level was crazy to begin with, the fact that the city officials seem to have had no plans at all on how to evacuate [and don't tell me they actually believed something like this wouldn't happen] is just sad...

[js3901]

you'd think people would be smart enough to build in an area that doesn't sink and put you in more danger, but no. or at least, once they figured that the area was sinking that they'd move to a more stable area.

I know that the media is all about image, and will put a spin on everything, but the stuff I've seen on TV today or on various news sites has me just shocked that this is all going on. I read earlier of an old woman who died in her wheelchair and they covered her in a blanket (still in the chair). On CNN a little while later, they actually showed her. They said that people are dying all over the place now due to the no food/water and horrible conditions of everything down there. patients in hospitals had to be moved to higher floors due to looters breaking in and stealing things from lower floors. Why are people acting like animals down there? I understand people are dying and everything, but still...

sorry for the lack of flow right now. busy night at work and I can't think straight right now.

Edit: For those of you who have family/friends, or if you yourself are, in the areas affected and want to know if they're (or let others know that you're)ok, go Here. If you're still searching for someone (if you can't find them in the previous link), then please Click Here. This is a news channel website out of NO that has a few forums run by phbb (the exact same system you're reading this on now). Run a search and find whoever you're looking for.