Fantasyland Expansion

Mr.ToadWildRider · Post by **Mr.ToadWildRider** » Sep Tue 15, 2009 2:13 pm

mindflipper wrote:
To think that Frontierland, Tomorrowland, Adventureland is "for boys, not girls" is perpetuating old gender stereotypes that should no longer apply in this day and age. Girls can be cowgirls, astronauts, or tomb raider explorers nowadays, and given how most dress for Halloween in my neighborhood, it would seem that this is the case. As for the parks being in a "princess frenzy" - no, I don't think its widespread through every park; it is limited for space it consumes in the parks, but I do believe Disney limits how it sees its marketing for girls. Girls are just limited to being princesses anymore.

I don't think this is Disney pigeon-holing little girls as only being interested in princess stuff; I think it is more Disney reacting to what the girls want. One could also counter argue that little boys can want to be like the princes in these stories too, and that saying a story with a princess as the main character is perpetuating a stereo type that boys aren't interested in this type of entertainment.

I realize that by saying little boys would rather be a pirate and little girls would rather be a princess is being stereotypical, but the fact is there is generally some truth to many (not all) stereotypes as is the case here. Are there little girls grabbing eye patches, cutlasses, and hats after they jump off PotC? Sure, but there are way more going for the princess stuff. It is fair to say, however, that where pirate gear is in many ways gender neutral these days, princess dresses are not and are limited in their appeal to girls.

99Soulz · Post by **99Soulz** » Sep Tue 15, 2009 2:56 pm

Good stuff mindflipper. We do agree on a lot of points and the ones where we highlight different views all have merit as well. I absolutely agree that more dark ride attractions should be thought up and realized. This is where imagineers can truely show their talents. Look at the lines for Peter Pan, they are always the longest in FL, imagine what they can do 35 years later. That is why I was asking about the rumored Mine Train ride, I can only imagine what they have worked up for that one for a fraction of the cost of the thrill-rides, while appealing to a much larger audience.

I agree that disney is limiting it marketing to girls with the princesses, sending a message that is long gone in today's world. Although I do have to say we primarily exposed our daughter to Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, Einsteins, Toy Story, Peter Pan...and many other gender neutral characters but she just loves to be a princess. They all get equal times on the DVD player but she absolutely loves the princesses. And current state in the parks she really doesn't get that much princess interaction outside of a dark ride (Snow White) , a 3D show (Voyage of the Little Mermaid), and a meet and greet (Ariel's Grotto & Bell's Storytime). And the 1 dark ride, Snow White, it's so outdated and in dire need of refurbishment to the point of buldozing it and starting from scrap (can you tell what I think of that ride). Please put the Mine Train here!!

In the end, I guess it all comes down to budget, and expanding with 1 new dark ride, and a bunch of meet and greets is probably giving them enough bang for their buck while adding much more space to alleviate all the congestion. I just hope the theming is going to be as top notch as its being depicted on the renditions to make it a true "fantasyland".

Regarding your other comments, I rode Mission Space 2x (back to back) before they even had a 'green' side and haven't been on it since. Not sure why. I did enjoy it but for some reason there's nothing that makes it a must do for me each visit. I can't imagine how much that must have cost them to make and in my mind I would never miss it if it were gone tomorrow. RnR, Tot, and Everest are 3 of my favorites because I am love thrill rides but I could give them up for 10 new rides/attractions that would cost the same and appealed to a larger audience. I wouldn't have to wait 10 years for my kids to enjoy them with me that it's going to take for the thrill rides.

MrToadWildrider, totally agree with the stereotype comment. They are there for a reason. Can girls be pirates or cowgirls, sure they can and there are but just not the majority. Probably why Pixar had Andy play with Buzz and Woody and not princesses.

mindflipper · Post by **mindflipper** » Sep Tue 15, 2009 10:03 pm

Remember, in Toy Story, Andy also had Bo Peep in his room he was playing with (even though he made her the damsel in distress). And in Toy Story 2, we added the cowgirl and Mrs. Potato Head, so they at least they are trying to mix it up with the genders. As for Pixar films I always liked the Incredibles in that both Mr. and Mrs. Incredible were crime-fighting superheroes. Crime-fighting superheroes were not limited to be just guys.

Also, in prior post, I left out a word: Girls are NOT just limited to being princesses anymore. Type too fast sometimes.

Mr.ToadWildRider, you're right that marketing people react to customer trends, but I had a professor in college who says the marketing is more about creating a market (or a niche) than reacting to the market. Corporations/Marketing try to proactively create trends: some work, some fail. Disney did not market merchandise for Toy Story when the film came out and missed the market but over-marketed Pocahontas merchandise and it just sat on the shelves. I think Disney probably started the princess marketing plan and once the princess marketing take off, they then reacted by kicking it up a notch. Nothing wrong with that, it's just business.

99soulz: no matter what, some girls just want to be a princess. Nothing wrong with that. And if a boy wants to be a prince or king, nothing wrong with that. Didn't Mel Brooks once say, "Hey, it's good to be the king."

Honestly, your daughter sounds like she's has a great parent. She's very lucky. The wonderful thing about kids is that they always find something new and wonderful that excites their interest. She may be a princess now, but what will she want to be next? You'll have fun finding out.

As for Snow White ride, I do AGREE!! It looks old and in bad shape. I never understood why they got rid of Mr. Toad's Wild Ride and kept Snow White. Mr. Toad's was always busier than Snow White whenever I went to the park! I don't think Mr.ToadWildRider would disagree with me on this one. Dump Snow White and bring back the Toad!

And as for your reaction to Mission: Space - its amazing how many people have said the same thing. They ride it, then not impressed, and have no real desire to ride it again. What about that thrill ride that just doesn't thrill its riders? Does Disney really want a ride that most people could live their lives never riding again? And yet, people ride HM, POTC, and Soarin over and over again. Those rides cost less, endure longer. Lesson to be learned? Hmmmm,...

I can't find anything in the articles about the Fantasyland expansion about a mine ride. Orlando Sentinel only reported one new ride about the Little Mermaid. If anyone out there knows anything about the rumored mine train ride, please post. We're all curious.

noledawg · Post by **noledawg** » Sep Sun 20, 2009 9:11 am

As long as this will herd the little children out of the way so I can get from Liberty Square to Tomorrowland without tripping over feet and strollers, I'm happy!

kcookiebaker · Post by **kcookiebaker** » Sep Sun 20, 2009 1:02 pm

Are any of the Princess Castle attractions going to be inviting to adults?
I think I just read that there will be a coloring station, like in Epcot for the wee ones, and a storybook reading time. All this is fine, but I wish Fantasyland were not being re-developed just for the little ones.

All this when Universal just released new news about the Wizarding World of Harry Potter and it seems more teen, adult inclusive. Anyway, besides another place to eat (always a plus), will there be something for grown-up?

ckc0915 · Post by **ckc0915** » Sep Sun 20, 2009 2:54 pm

little mermaid attraction should be fun for all, but fantasyland never really catered to the grown-up crowd anyway. im sure the new restaurants will be fun for all as well.

MadEye · Post by **MadEye** » Sep Sun 20, 2009 3:04 pm

ckc0915 wrote:little mermaid attraction should be fun for all, but fantasyland never really catered to the grown-up crowd anyway. im sure the new restaurants will be fun for all as well.

I think that is what I am most looking forward to.

Soarin08 · Post by **Soarin08** » Sep Sun 27, 2009 12:43 am

noledawg wrote:As long as this will herd the little children out of the way so I can get from Liberty Square to Tomorrowland without tripping over feet and strollers, I'm happy!

Agreed agreed agreed!!!!!

DIAC2000 · Post by **DIAC2000** » Oct Fri 02, 2009 10:47 pm

I feel sorry for Little Timmy, whom has to walk with Little Sister Suzie and the rest of the family as she wants to visit all the princesses in Fantasyland.

They should do a favor for the boys and "manlify" Frontierland

jenhen27 · Post by **jenhen27** » Oct Fri 09, 2009 10:48 am

I am really excited about the expansion. Although they are destroying two toddler play areas to build it so I'm hoping that somewhere amongst the castles, cottages and hollows that there will be a toddler play area. I didn't watch the video so maybe that has been explained. I'm also a little confused as to why Dumbo was moved so far away from the rest of Fantasyland but the new queue sounds interesting. I'm assuming that the princes and other characters will be involved and that will be for the little boys as well.

I am probably in the minority but I don't mind Mickey and Minnie's houses on Main street somewhere. I actually think that's probably the best place for them in the park. I wonder where in main street they will put them.

MadEye · Post by **MadEye** » Oct Fri 09, 2009 11:46 am

DIAC2000 wrote:I feel sorry for Little Timmy, whom has to walk with Little Sister Suzie and the rest of the family as she wants to visit all the princesses in Fantasyland.

They should do a favor for the boys and "manlify" Frontierland

Whats to keep dad from taking Little Timmy to Tomorrowland/Frontierland/Adventureland???

imaginationcelebration · Post by **imaginationcelebration** » Oct Mon 26, 2009 8:33 pm

Mr.ToadWildRider wrote:To be fair, as earlier posted (99soulz by memory? Sorry if wrong) most of MK seems more themed towards "boys." Frontierland, Adventureland, and Tomorrowland all have sort of a more masculine feel to them. Do girls like them? Sure, but often times it's the boys that like playing Cowboy, or Pirate, or dream of aliens and space (not always but stereotypically speaking...). I don't think the little girl focus seems unfair to be honest.

I'm saying this as a 25 year-old male with no kids.

Just what I was thinking, you could argue that the rest of the park definitely has a masculine feel to it, so I don't really see the problem with a princess focus or understand the logic that it would only appeal to little girls. Who really knows how that area is going to feel when you're actually immersed in it. Is what makes Disney Parks impressive and above all other amusement parks that the areas or rides have a masculine or feminine feel? No, its the imagination, magic, and attention to detail that is involved with the creation of the parks and rides that makes them appeal to everyone of all ages, no matter what sex you happen to be.

imaginationcelebration · Post by **imaginationcelebration** » Oct Mon 26, 2009 8:37 pm

Soarin08 wrote:
noledawg wrote:As long as this will herd the little children out of the way so I can get from Liberty Square to Tomorrowland without tripping over feet and strollers, I'm happy!

Agreed agreed agreed!!!!!

Hehehe, yeah that's a good way of looking at it too.

mindflipper · Post by **mindflipper** » Oct Mon 26, 2009 9:23 pm

DIAC2000 wrote:
I feel sorry for Little Timmy, whom has to walk with Little Sister Suzie and the rest of the family as she wants to visit all the princesses in Fantasyland.

They should do a favor for the boys and "manlify" Frontierland

Whats to keep dad from taking Little Timmy to Tomorrowland/Frontierland/Adventureland???

I agree, MadEye. Dad and Timmy can go somewhere else if they want. This is the age of cellphones, so its not hard for people to keep in contact with each other while they're in the park anymore.

MadEye · Post by **MadEye** » Oct Tue 27, 2009 9:29 am

mindflipper wrote:
DIAC2000 wrote:
I feel sorry for Little Timmy, whom has to walk with Little Sister Suzie and the rest of the family as she wants to visit all the princesses in Fantasyland.

They should do a favor for the boys and "manlify" Frontierland

Whats to keep dad from taking Little Timmy to Tomorrowland/Frontierland/Adventureland???
I agree, MadEye. Dad and Timmy can go somewhere else if they want. This is the age of cellphones, so its not hard for people to keep in contact with each other while they're in the park anymore.

It's what me and my dad did when I was younger and my brother was too short for Space/Splash/Big Thunder when there was no such thing as a cell phone. It worked...