MyMagic+

[MmeLeota]

I'm not sure what I think of this idea yet. It still seems like it's an open invitation for hackers to me...

the only problem with that statement above is that the RFID chips only broadcast a number. the database in the resort/park has to look at a table and see if the chip is indeed the 'owner' of access privledges to say a room. it would be criminally negligent for the information to be stored on the chip, for your exact reason above. as for the payment and dining plan access, one would still have to key in a PIN #. so even with a skimmer, all you could get was a #... , but which of the 15k+ onsite rooms does it open?

Thank you for the explanation...I'm not a techincal person. (and I watch too much "Person of Interest" )
I'm still not sure until we experience it firsthand...we shall see.

[Wizzard419]

The only question is, which is also easy to answer, how do they make the numbers? Are they randomly generated (expensive and time consuming) or are they partially serial like normal hotel room keys? In many cases the numbers tied to keys are simply the hotel, the floor, room, and the guest that stayed there (as a number), each time a new guest checks in the number increases by 1. RFID stuff is also easy to spoof, because they are only broadcasting a code rather than checking that the device is actually a legitimate one to begin with.

[Future Guy]

That's not entirely true, since you can still do all the spontaneous activities of the past, it's just more a benefit for the anal retentive types that like to plan 3 years in advance.

Not quite. The Fastpass+ element of this is going to drive standby wait times up considerably. Why do you think they're adding all those interactive queue elements? It's because wait times are going to go through the roof. Attractions that previously didn't use FastPass and had pretty short waits, like Spaceship Earth, Pirates, or the Great Movie Ride, are probably going to have 20-30 min. standby waits on a good day now. And if you get in the standby line for a low-capacity ride like Peter Pan's Flight, you probably should plan on being there until the next Presidential administration. So if you don't play the game the way Disney wants you to and book your Fastpasses in advance, you'll pay for it by waiting an inflated amount of time for the stuff you want to do.

And although Disney hasn't come out and admitted it yet, most folks believe that the number of Fastpasses you get will be tied to whether you're staying at a Value, Moderate, or Deluxe resort. It's also extremely likely that you'll be able to buy additional Fastpasses. Do you see what a bad deal this is?

All while WDW's attractions and infrastructure fall apart due to lack of maintenance.

That isn't entirely true, while paint may peel and various figures might not be fully functional, the infrastructure is still sound. If they let that go there would be risk of lawsuits if something happend to a worker or customer.

Perhaps I should rephrase. The attractions are maintained enough to make sure that a basic level of safety is maintained. But for the outrageous prices that Disney charges, simply not having your ride vehicle fall off the track or the roof of a show building collapse on your head is not good enough. There are so many issues that the maintenance department just isn't well-staffed or well-funded enough to address: Maelstrom's horrible mold problem and its dirty and broken show scenes. The figures on Pan that don't move anymore. Splash Mountain's continuing issues. The broken/deactivated effects on Dinosaur. And we all know about Expedition Everest and the Yeti. It's simply not acceptable. For the premium prices that Disney charges, we deserve a premium experience.

[Wizzard419]

That's not entirely true, since you can still do all the spontaneous activities of the past, it's just more a benefit for the anal retentive types that like to plan 3 years in advance.

Not quite. The Fastpass+ element of this is going to drive standby wait times up considerably. Why do you think they're adding all those interactive queue elements? It's because wait times are going to go through the roof. Attractions that previously didn't use FastPass and had pretty short waits, like Spaceship Earth, Pirates, or the Great Movie Ride, are probably going to have 20-30 min. standby waits on a good day now. And if you get in the standby line for a low-capacity ride like Peter Pan's Flight, you probably should plan on being there until the next Presidential administration. So if you don't play the game the way Disney wants you to and book your Fastpasses in advance, you'll pay for it by waiting an inflated amount of time for the stuff you want to do.

And although Disney hasn't come out and admitted it yet, most folks believe that the number of Fastpasses you get will be tied to whether you're staying at a Value, Moderate, or Deluxe resort. It's also extremely likely that you'll be able to buy additional Fastpasses. Do you see what a bad deal this is?

All while WDW's attractions and infrastructure fall apart due to lack of maintenance.

That isn't entirely true, while paint may peel and various figures might not be fully functional, the infrastructure is still sound. If they let that go there would be risk of lawsuits if something happend to a worker or customer.

Perhaps I should rephrase. The attractions are maintained enough to make sure that a basic level of safety is maintained. But for the outrageous prices that Disney charges, simply not having your ride vehicle fall off the track or the roof of a show building collapse on your head is not good enough. There are so many issues that the maintenance department just isn't well-staffed or well-funded enough to address: Maelstrom's horrible mold problem and its dirty and broken show scenes. The figures on Pan that don't move anymore. Splash Mountain's continuing issues. The broken/deactivated effects on Dinosaur. And we all know about Expedition Everest and the Yeti. It's simply not acceptable. For the premium prices that Disney charges, we deserve a premium experience.

That correlation isn't correct though, they may not even impact the actual wait times in any meaningful way. The reason the in line entertainment was added wasn't because of that, it's the same reason they have music, air conditioning, artwork, and research the s*it out of things like flooring, it is all to make the wait suck a little less.

At the same time, is there anything wrong with the number of passes being based on how much one spends? Since this is a private enterprise, and they already do offer packages that would allow you to jump the line on every ride, would it be any different?


Regarding disney's upkeep, while the ticket prices have gone up, have the costs of running the resorts not also gone up? Yes, they had a record year (for the company) for income, but the profits may have not been a record. Such as with the Yeti, it probably will not be fixed until there is a major overhaul since the ride is literally built arround the figure and there is no way to work on it. I know you note that you expect a premium experience, but at the same time would you say any other tourist attraction is beating them in terms of experience, or are you still drawn to the disney family?

[MmeLeota]

So will ALL attractions have FastPass abilities then? I presumed that only the attractions that currently offer FastPass would be the ones offered for the new FP...in which case, the wait times would not be affected much at all.

[Len90]

Wizzard and Future Guy I actually like the different angles both are bringing to this topic. I do think Future Guy that you are being a bit too quick in calling for 20-30 minute waits for SSE and TGMR. IF the wrist bands are to replace fastpass completely then I don't think we will be seeing just yet any sort of issues for low wait attractions. After all, I really don't think anyone is going to be jumping online to schedule their ride on Mad Tea Party or TGMR. Even still something like TGMR, which if busy will run two shows can then easily split to a reserved fastpass show vehicle and the standby show vehicle. We definitely will have to wait and see on this before jumping to any conclusions.

If Disney will be placing emphasis on hotel levels with the wristbands, then it looks like the RFID system will have to assign you numbers upon payment or something so you will be able to book your attractions. RFID chips will then also have to be programmed for the bracelets to then coincide. However, I would like to hope this is just rumor and will not be the case as it will create some interesting arguments at Guest Services. People are still paying the same price for the theme park experiences. If Disney is to offer any difference of service for where you stay it would have to be at the actual resort location or with your transportation to the parks.

As for the maintenance, I have to agree completely with Future Guy. TDO has consistently (since the Eisner era) been lackluster in maintenance. The yeti, to me, is a huge failure in the imagineering department. It shows how they never thought about the physics involved with the movements of the yeti and the force it will have on the foundation. It really does have an impact on the attraction. As Future Guy stated, Maelstrom has not seen any TLC in years. It honestly looks aged and rundown. I went on it during EMH and it really was almost like walking through the Haunted Mansion, expect the neglect is done on purpose for the Haunted Mansion. Yes costs for park operations have gone up, but Disney has consistently offset those cost increases by passing it on to the guests. Whether it is an admission price increase, parking fee increase, or hotel rate increase, Disney has offset rising costs. For fiscal year 2012, Disney Parks category saw an increase in operating profit jumped 22% to 1.9 billion and operating revenue was up 10% to 12.9 billion. Yes that does not single out WDW, and yes WDW did actually see a slight decrease in attendance. However, it was offset in the numbers by the opening of Cars land and the reopening of California Adventure. To me this shows that if Disney invests money in creating NEW attractions, new shows, and removing dead ends they can manage to show healthy gains in both revenue and profit.

[theBIGyowski]

I'm sure there is a nice little battle going on between TDO and WDI on a daily basis when it comes to the parks and the attractions in them.

I'll bet you the farm that WDI hates what happened to the foundation under the Yeti (even though it was their fault because of bad math) and they would love to fix it...because it's their black eye...but TDO doesn't want to spend the time and money necessary to fix it. They figure if they just turn on a strobe light...no one will notice the difference...especially the guests who never saw the fully operational Yeti.

If Splash Mountain can be rehabbed every year...Maelstrom should be able to get some kind of face lift. I assume the ride systems are almost identical...other than going backward in Maelstrom.

If you want, you can already pay for a VIP tour guide so you get special treatment in the parks...so Disney already offers "more" to those who want to pay for it. For this reason...being able to pay for a FP upgrade isn't all that far-fetched. The downside comes when Legacy FP is gradually removed...and all guests must pay for FP+ or whatever it is called in the future.

[Amy]

I'm sure there is a nice little battle going on between TDO and WDI on a daily basis when it comes to the parks and the attractions in them.

I'll bet you the farm that WDI hates what happened to the foundation under the Yeti (even though it was their fault because of bad math) and they would love to fix it...because it's their black eye...but TDO doesn't want to spend the time and money necessary to fix it. They figure if they just turn on a strobe light...no one will notice the difference...especially the guests who never saw the fully operational Yeti.

If Splash Mountain can be rehabbed every year...Maelstrom should be able to get some kind of face lift. I assume the ride systems are almost identical...other than going backward in Maelstrom.

If you want, you can already pay for a VIP tour guide so you get special treatment in the parks...so Disney already offers "more" to those who want to pay for it. For this reason...being able to pay for a FP upgrade isn't all that far-fetched. The downside comes when Legacy FP is gradually removed...and all guests must pay for FP+ or whatever it is called in the future.

I would guess Maelstrom isn't as well attended as Splash Mountain so they don't want to spend the money refurbishing it

[Wizzard419]

Wizzard and Future Guy I actually like the different angles both are bringing to this topic. I do think Future Guy that you are being a bit too quick in calling for 20-30 minute waits for SSE and TGMR. IF the wrist bands are to replace fastpass completely then I don't think we will be seeing just yet any sort of issues for low wait attractions. After all, I really don't think anyone is going to be jumping online to schedule their ride on Mad Tea Party or TGMR. Even still something like TGMR, which if busy will run two shows can then easily split to a reserved fastpass show vehicle and the standby show vehicle. We definitely will have to wait and see on this before jumping to any conclusions.

If Disney will be placing emphasis on hotel levels with the wristbands, then it looks like the RFID system will have to assign you numbers upon payment or something so you will be able to book your attractions. RFID chips will then also have to be programmed for the bracelets to then coincide. However, I would like to hope this is just rumor and will not be the case as it will create some interesting arguments at Guest Services. People are still paying the same price for the theme park experiences. If Disney is to offer any difference of service for where you stay it would have to be at the actual resort location or with your transportation to the parks.

As for the maintenance, I have to agree completely with Future Guy. TDO has consistently (since the Eisner era) been lackluster in maintenance. The yeti, to me, is a huge failure in the imagineering department. It shows how they never thought about the physics involved with the movements of the yeti and the force it will have on the foundation. It really does have an impact on the attraction. As Future Guy stated, Maelstrom has not seen any TLC in years. It honestly looks aged and rundown. I went on it during EMH and it really was almost like walking through the Haunted Mansion, expect the neglect is done on purpose for the Haunted Mansion. Yes costs for park operations have gone up, but Disney has consistently offset those cost increases by passing it on to the guests. Whether it is an admission price increase, parking fee increase, or hotel rate increase, Disney has offset rising costs. For fiscal year 2012, Disney Parks category saw an increase in operating profit jumped 22% to 1.9 billion and operating revenue was up 10% to 12.9 billion. Yes that does not single out WDW, and yes WDW did actually see a slight decrease in attendance. However, it was offset in the numbers by the opening of Cars land and the reopening of California Adventure. To me this shows that if Disney invests money in creating NEW attractions, new shows, and removing dead ends they can manage to show healthy gains in both revenue and profit.

They probably will not be scrapping the old system since not all guests are staying on property and dumbphones still hold a significant share of the market, plus international guests may not be able to use the apps if disney doesn't have ROW versions, etc.

Even before this system, you had your guest IDs for everyone in the party made up right when you booked since you already told them how many people were in the party, how many tickets, etc. If they had to build a new bracelet for each guest it would be too expensive, they most likely will just link a bracelet to a guest when they arrive (or before if they use the express) where that number will be the key for the room, payment, etc.

Yes they should remove old, tired, and unpopular attractions, like CoP , but at the same time WDW has a different customer base than DLR. At WDW, due to the expense and the simply massive size of the resort, normal guests will not return as frequently (or ever in some cases). At DLR there is a heavy local element that visits the park at least once a year, so it makes sense to have more updates for guests that come back more.

[Len90]

Wizzard, CoP is an original Walt attraction that hopefully will always be left around for those who idolize Walt and everything he did/caused. I do think WDW draws a heavy local element and I know it probably is not as strong as that of DLR. However, given the locations I do think it does pretty well. WDW does have enough yearly visitors who keep coming back all the time. Think about the size of the DVC.

As for scrapping the old system, it will be done in time. RFID chips are pretty cheap and will probably be incorporated into the regular admission tickets. AP holders, are starting to be phased in as well. I'm guessing they will then just be programming the chips on the cards to coincide. The only issue I see is that with the old numbering system they would print it at the hotel and program that number to the card. With an RFID chip I guess then they are just putting the number onto the chip.

Big: Tours are kind of different from what I was trying to get at.

[Wizzard419]

It will probably stay, but not for the reasons you would want to hear. It's cheap to run, and it's built up near it so they would need to contend with the railroad, a lake, monorail, etc. So unless they get a really good attraction, they will probably keep the old building there and just spend enough on it to keep it running since no sponsors are interested in it. You could always start a kickstarter to sponsor it.

It may draw some, but it doesn't draw an overwhelming level like DLR nor does it get a significant amount of people booking annual trips to them. DVC is a timeshare and think about how a second economy sprung up for reselling the points.

The cost isn't so much the issue (when I meant expensive, I meant more in that you would have a larger amount of labor required since the band would need to be accounted for from creation vs just grabbing one from a box at check in and linking it to an account), but rather not everyone will be able to use the system (since you would need a compatible smart phone w/ the app running to use it) and if they scrap it, then they would be putting off customers.

There is also another weird issue, though they may start offering this service soon, what to do about charging devices? If someone forgets their charger and is on a week vacation, odds are it won't last the whole trip. So we may start seeing these in the parks (phone charging booths/services)



This will probably not be coming to DLR though, we still have ticket takers and don't have to finger the machine to get in. That and a lot of the stuff they are proposing the bands be used for (such as enhanced experience stuff) isn't really done at DLR.

[cy1229]

I'm seriously thinking about getting a solar- powered charger. attach it to the outside of the backpack, and charge as you go.

I got a million of ' em.

[Amy]

I'm seriously thinking about getting a solar- powered charger. attach it to the outside of the backpack, and charge as you go.

I got a million of ' em.

I've seen those, but I've never known anyone that has actually had one. And I'm guessing if they worked really well, they would be more prevalent...especially among travelers.

[dstrawn9889]

Wizzard, CoP is an original Walt attraction that hopefully will always be left around for those who idolize Walt and everything he did/caused. I do think WDW draws a heavy local element and I know it probably is not as strong as that of DLR. However, given the locations I do think it does pretty well. WDW does have enough yearly visitors who keep coming back all the time. Think about the size of the DVC.

As for scrapping the old system, it will be done in time. RFID chips are pretty cheap and will probably be incorporated into the regular admission tickets. AP holders, are starting to be phased in as well. I'm guessing they will then just be programming the chips on the cards to coincide. The only issue I see is that with the old numbering system they would print it at the hotel and program that number to the card. With an RFID chip I guess then they are just putting the number onto the chip.

Big: Tours are kind of different from what I was trying to get at.

this is what will happen now... check-in time, cm reaches down and grabs x number of bands from box... he/she scans them one at a time into the registration system, and then they are active. the rfid braclets only broadcast the id number they are given, at the factory, some impossibly long hexidecimal number... and those numbers are tagged in the database as "joe", "charlie", ore "sue" moneyspender. the park system takes care of everything else. it is called a database "key", a unique identifier for that person/family.

[Len90]

Yeah but if Disney wants to seriously keep records then they will want to assign bracelets to each resort. I'm sure Disney will be interested in seeing how everyone from different resorts will "behave" in the parks and really the quickest way to do it would be sort by a numerical value in the bracelet ID. Thus makes me wonder... With the room keys, the number was programmed to the card and in that number you had resort identification and various other items.\

As for Disneyland, they seriously need to come up with a more efficient entrance strategy. Pretty much everyone has to show a picture ID when entering. Lines to get into the park were always there no matter how busy the parks are.