WDW Testing New Electric Bus

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Wizzard419
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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by Wizzard419 » Jun Sun 16, 2013 7:34 pm

Cardinals314 wrote:
Wizzard419 wrote:Arguably there is incentive to not research it as the oil industry would suffer if transportation didn't need them as much anymore.
I think even without Disney using gas, the oil industry will be fine. Car companies have tried selling electric cars for the public, but didn't sell well. The oil industry will continue to be big unless some remarkable technological achievement is made.
I meant widespread sales. Similar to how when the country demanded smaller cars in the 70's (due to the oil crisis) the US made unappealing ones while foreign makers did better. The main reason they do tank (though Tesla seems to be surviving and profiting) is they are either the consumer doesn't want them, they can't afford them, or a mixture of both (as in fugly with a price tag near that of a Bentley).

Theoretically, since advancements require research and research requires money the federal money is less free flowing for projects like that. Possibly due to the deep investment in politicians by the industry.

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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by cy1229 » Jun Mon 17, 2013 6:39 am

Wizzard419 wrote:
Cardinals314 wrote:
Wizzard419 wrote:Arguably there is incentive to not research it as the oil industry would suffer if transportation didn't need them as much anymore.
I think even without Disney using gas, the oil industry will be fine. Car companies have tried selling electric cars for the public, but didn't sell well. The oil industry will continue to be big unless some remarkable technological achievement is made.
I meant widespread sales. Similar to how when the country demanded smaller cars in the 70's (due to the oil crisis) the US made unappealing ones while foreign makers did better. The main reason they do tank (though Tesla seems to be surviving and profiting) is they are either the consumer doesn't want them, they can't afford them, or a mixture of both (as in fugly with a price tag near that of a Bentley).

Theoretically, since advancements require research and research requires money the federal money is less free flowing for projects like that. Possibly due to the deep investment in politicians by the industry.
Oil companies do have a lot to lose if electric vehicles make serious inroads. But they also have a lot to lose when their product becomes too expensive for the ordinary American to afford it.

The biggest obstacle to all-electric vehicles right now is range / battery storage capacity. There are a handful of groups researching new battery materials that can store a greater charge for greater distance on a single charge, but the best batteries require lithium, mostly mined in South America, and only give 40 miles total distance. For someone like me, who does most driving within 10 miles of home, it would be a great investment and step toward reducing ghg emissions. However, very few Americans are willing to commit that kind of $$ for a vehicle that won't take them more than 20 minutes from home and back again. One thing that sets us apart from almost every other developed country is our independence and love for our automobiles. We like to be able to go when we want, where we want, how we want, and public transportation just doesn't fit that bill. Electric vehicles, right now, can't do that for us.

But... an application such as this one, or national park shuttles, or the like, can be very well served by electric vehicles. I'm curious to know more about the quick charge device they talk about on the website. Is it a high-power, DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE, kind of device? If so I'd be concerned about it being so close to passenger load/unload areas if it's installed at a stop where the bus is idle for 5-10 minutes, such as at a park. Also, this just occurred to me... if the vehicle is charging while loading/unloading passengers, they're going to have a hard time keeping it "plugged in" on the roof when they tilt the bus to allow those in wheelchairs and scooters access onto the bus.
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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by Len90 » Jun Mon 17, 2013 1:23 pm

I personally see this as something that will fail in the present time. I think in the internal Ft. Wilderness and EPCOT cast loop it will work. The bus will have plenty of down time to stay plugged in. Now start throwing it on the high capacity MK routes and there will be an issue. Long hours and not enough time to charge during the day.
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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by Wizzard419 » Jun Mon 17, 2013 1:50 pm

Range is always an issue with transport, but I guess the question would be what is the range for the present line used and what is the procedure for when it needs to be refueled? Do they just run over to the depot and it immediately goes back out or does it get rotated out and cleaned? If the process takes long enough, using that time to recharge might equate out.

One of the concerns that the oil industry probably has with electric cars is that it would decentralize them since you would not need fuel drilled from a select few spots and processed in a refinery.

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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by dstrawn9889 » Jul Mon 01, 2013 11:10 pm

cy1229 wrote:
Wizzard419 wrote:Arguably there is incentive to not research it as the oil industry would suffer if transportation didn't need them as much anymore.
I think even without Disney using gas, the oil industry will be fine. Car companies have tried selling electric cars for the public, but didn't sell well. The oil industry will continue to be big unless some remarkable technological achievement is made.
I meant widespread sales. Similar to how when the country demanded smaller cars in the 70's (due to the oil crisis) the US made unappealing ones while foreign makers did better. The main reason they do tank (though Tesla seems to be surviving and profiting) is they are either the consumer doesn't want them, they can't afford them, or a mixture of both (as in fugly with a price tag near that of a Bentley).

Theoretically, since advancements require research and research requires money the federal money is less free flowing for projects like that. Possibly due to the deep investment in politicians by the industry.[/quote]
Oil companies do have a lot to lose if electric vehicles make serious inroads. But they also have a lot to lose when their product becomes too expensive for the ordinary American to afford it.

The biggest obstacle to all-electric vehicles right now is range / battery storage capacity. There are a handful of groups researching new battery materials that can store a greater charge for greater distance on a single charge, but the best batteries require lithium, mostly mined in South America, and only give 40 miles total distance. For someone like me, who does most driving within 10 miles of home, it would be a great investment and step toward reducing ghg emissions. However, very few Americans are willing to commit that kind of $$ for a vehicle that won't take them more than 20 minutes from home and back again. One thing that sets us apart from almost every other developed country is our independence and love for our automobiles. We like to be able to go when we want, where we want, how we want, and public transportation just doesn't fit that bill. Electric vehicles, right now, can't do that for us.

But... an application such as this one, or national park shuttles, or the like, can be very well served by electric vehicles. I'm curious to know more about the quick charge device they talk about on the website. Is it a high-power, DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE, kind of device? If so I'd be concerned about it being so close to passenger load/unload areas if it's installed at a stop where the bus is idle for 5-10 minutes, such as at a park. Also, this just occurred to me... if the vehicle is charging while loading/unloading passengers, they're going to have a hard time keeping it "plugged in" on the roof when they tilt the bus to allow those in wheelchairs and scooters access onto the bus.[/quote]
the charging mechanism seems to be an articulated arm that swin\gs out and grapples the overhead by sliding down a track on the roof, locking it down like a laptop battery, until the switch is thrown and the bus pulls away, then the swing arm moves away from the loading area, to allow normal buses to pull in... check out the pictures from the link
Image

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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by dstrawn9889 » Jul Mon 01, 2013 11:12 pm

the e-brochure says a 95% charge at 92% efficiency in 10 minutes...
Image

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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by Wizzard419 » Jul Tue 02, 2013 12:59 am

You know, even if the bus charges that fast, there is one other alternative that is in the works as well, swappable batteries.

Tesla is toying with the idea for their cars. As you would imagine, the batteries weigh a lot (for a tesla, apparently, the unit weighs one ton) so hand replacement isn't an option and even if it were it would be slow. What they are going to use are the same machines that install the battery in the first place to perform the swaps which not only can do it in a minute but also can install to factory standards. So, theoretically, if the bus design could allow for it the change out could be more rapid than a refuel.

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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by Club33Hopeful » Jul Tue 02, 2013 7:44 am

cy1229 wrote:But... an application such as this one, or national park shuttles, or the like, can be very well served by electric vehicles. I'm curious to know more about the quick charge device they talk about on the website. Is it a high-power, DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE, kind of device? If so I'd be concerned about it being so close to passenger load/unload areas if it's installed at a stop where the bus is idle for 5-10 minutes, such as at a park. Also, this just occurred to me... if the vehicle is charging while loading/unloading passengers, they're going to have a hard time keeping it "plugged in" on the roof when they tilt the bus to allow those in wheelchairs and scooters access onto the bus.
Keep in mind that the Red Car Trollies in DCA are all electric and have large on-board batteries. There are inductive chargers buried in the ground at the trolly stops; every time the trolly stops over the top of them, the batteries are being topped off. No wires to plug in.
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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by Wyntuck » Jul Tue 02, 2013 8:40 am

Cardinals314 wrote:From what I have been reading, this is the bus that they are testing:

http://www.proterra.com/index.php/products


HOORAY! those buses are built in good old Greenville, SC USA!

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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by Wizzard419 » Jul Tue 02, 2013 2:17 pm

Club33Hopeful wrote:
cy1229 wrote:But... an application such as this one, or national park shuttles, or the like, can be very well served by electric vehicles. I'm curious to know more about the quick charge device they talk about on the website. Is it a high-power, DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE, kind of device? If so I'd be concerned about it being so close to passenger load/unload areas if it's installed at a stop where the bus is idle for 5-10 minutes, such as at a park. Also, this just occurred to me... if the vehicle is charging while loading/unloading passengers, they're going to have a hard time keeping it "plugged in" on the roof when they tilt the bus to allow those in wheelchairs and scooters access onto the bus.
Keep in mind that the Red Car Trollies in DCA are all electric and have large on-board batteries. There are inductive chargers buried in the ground at the trolly stops; every time the trolly stops over the top of them, the batteries are being topped off. No wires to plug in.
That and they also don't move at road/highway speeds or have to travel for as great a distance.

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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by Club33Hopeful » Jul Tue 02, 2013 4:39 pm

Wizzard419 wrote:That and they also don't move at road/highway speeds or have to travel for as great a distance.
Doesn't mean the technology couldn't work.
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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by cy1229 » Jul Tue 02, 2013 4:59 pm

The induction thing is cool but that has its limitations.

The specific model posted at the beginning of this thread was a bus with a rapid-recharge swing-arm thingamabob, and it seems as though the bus has to be level for that.

So my original question, if the bus is recharging, what happens to dipping the board side of the bus down for the wheelchair / scooter ramp? Or, are these going to have some other way of loading wheeled vehicles, or (and I doubt they would be this idiotic) are these vehicles not going to accommodate scooters or wheelchairs?
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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by rusafee1183 » Jul Tue 02, 2013 5:28 pm

Exciting! We got a bus lesson about the 3 different 'types' of busses they run at WDW on one of our trips from a very chatty driver. It was actually pretty interesting stuff!
theBIGyowski wrote:and of course any money saved by TDO via fuel savings will be passed along to the consumers right? ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I thought the same thing!

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Re: WDW Testing New Electric Bus

Post by Wizzard419 » Jul Tue 02, 2013 5:42 pm

cy1229 wrote:The induction thing is cool but that has its limitations.

The specific model posted at the beginning of this thread was a bus with a rapid-recharge swing-arm thingamabob, and it seems as though the bus has to be level for that.

So my original question, if the bus is recharging, what happens to dipping the board side of the bus down for the wheelchair / scooter ramp? Or, are these going to have some other way of loading wheeled vehicles, or (and I doubt they would be this idiotic) are these vehicles not going to accommodate scooters or wheelchairs?
Since it is an ADA compliance thing, I think they would already be built with accommodations.

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