Subsonic Radio

Kevin Yee has posted a new segment of his Declining by Degree series.


http://miceage.com/kevinyee/ky040308a.htm

He nails a lot of the issue I and some of us have noticed in the parks.

Its a must read.

Rich

alot of good points. wont stop me from going!

very nice read... thanks for the link

Nifty article. I found this one interesting:

Lawyer-ing of the parks. Heard for some years on Spaceship Earth: "you are now rotating backwards." Can you imagine this with a coaster! "Warning! You are now going through a loop upside down. Remain seated please." Ludicrous. Put this on the screen now that you have one.

I always thought that was ridiculous myself, until I was talking to the people leading our Segway tour about it. Apparently an average of 9 people an hour freak out when those cars turn around. Excuses range from "I'll get sick if I go backwards" to "I didn't know this was a roller coaster". I found this both fascinating and kind of sad. A significant number of people who were upset about it were also non-English speakers, thus the addition of the video screens that show the cars rotating.

Just because I don't necessarily agree with that example though, I think the point is still valid. Making Tom Sawyer Island 'safe' so Jr. doesn't skin his knee is just sad. I'd lump having the townswomen chase the pirates in this mire too.

Those people will just have to tough it out. Im sorry but you can't tell me people wont ride the ride just because a chair turns. Not gonna buy it.

Breton wrote:Those people will just have to tough it out. Im sorry but you can't tell me people wont ride the ride just because a chair turns. Not gonna buy it.

Well I'm not saying those people aren't peculiar (imo, anyway). I'm just saying I understand why they put those particular features in, because people standing up all the time because they were "surprised" caused a problem, in terms of the ride having to be emergency stopped because people were standing, climbing around in the cars, etc.

I think they could solve a lot of the so-called legal problems by not letting stupid people who don't pay attention to their surroundings in the park, but I doubt that'll happen. Shame, that.

Let me refute some of these:

1) Yak and Yeti I believe is operated by a third-party company, not Disney. Yak and Yeti's quick service prices are actually higher than the typical one in the parks.

2) Keeping the park open late is a waste of money, because the amount of people willing to stay awake until past 10:00 after a long day of walking around the park(s) is very minimal.

3) "When you add music that clashes with the original theme of an area (such as Beach Boys at the Epcot entrance for Flower and Garden), you dilute the impact of the original idea."

Oh come on now, the soundtrack is perfect this year for Flower and Garden--an excellent blend of 50s and 60s pop music.

4) "This is always a controversial topic. Long time readers know that while I know FastPass is free for everyone, the reality is that many first timers don't know how to use it, or that it's free, or how to maximize usage of it. Taken as a whole, this means the only reason the system generates time savings for users is that other people are not using it, so in practical terms, it's an unequal system."

It is not our fault that despite us bashing the Fastpass system over the heads of guests, they STILL know nothing about it. The FastPass system is described to you on the maps, on television, and even on the way to the parks when traveling by bus. Sorry, but its not Disney being lazy, but its the guests not paying attention.

5) "There are still parades and stage shows, to be sure. But not everywhere. Epcot once had parades and a sky spectacular above its lagoon during the daytime. Where did this go?"

Death in "Surprise in the Sky" and conflicting pathways are your answer. Imagine trying to make it to the Japanese restaurant in time for the reservation---only to be stopped because a parade is passing by and everyone is seated/standing watching it pass. This was the dilemma faced with the Tapestry of Nations parade.

6) "Loss of quiet corners and special areas. The play area on a Viking ship at Norway is perhaps the most visible special area that's now gone, but there are loads of quiet corners which were once content to merely be quiet, out of the way places for people to relax. Increasingly, it seems like every square meter is required to generate money. The invasion of the parks by DVC is only one such example (did you know there is DVC in Tomorrowland as well as Frontierland?). Apparently executives didn't know people want to sometimes just relax and catch up with their day."

I really disagree here...there are plenty of places for you to relax and sit down--this applies especially to Epcot and magic Kingdom, and applies to Animal Kingdom. Hollywood Studios..not so much.

7) "I've seen the local blimp hovering over the parks more often lately, giving ads on the side."

He went during ESPN: The Weekend.

He does have some points...but other points are just stupid...

You spend a lot of work doing this and it has paid off. I agree with lots of these accusations. Disney is trying to get things back together. But it must redue Space Mountain, they have been putting this refurb for along time.

Thanks for the link.

I do agree with several of the points and many have been brought up on this website. One of things that probably sticks out to me is the DVC stands. They do seem to me to be overkill, you see those everywhere.

Lots of good points but i still love WDW.
I read that corp Disney allocates X dollars to each park for new or rehab of attractions. WDW added EE changed living Seas to Nemo & frends, added Philharmagic. HS got the stunt show. With these changes and others I've heard 2009 now for Space MT.

DIAC1987 wrote:Let me refute some of these:

1) Yak and Yeti I believe is operated by a third-party company, not Disney. Yak and Yeti's quick service prices are actually higher than the typical one in the parks.

So how is this right? Any third party company can come in an fleece the guest? Also since Yak and Yeti are within the confines of the park the way they treat guest is a direct representation on Disney. And 99% of the guest do not know, or care that its a 3rd party. If Disney invites 3rd party hosts into the park, they are responsible for them.

2) Keeping the park open late is a waste of money, because the amount of people willing to stay awake until past 10:00 after a long day of walking around the park(s) is very minimal.

I don't know if you been to the parks that late but they are always crowded. Also the point is not for Disney to save money but to extend the value of the ticket. Ticket prices have steadly gone up. Kevin's point is you get less for you money now.

3) "When you add music that clashes with the original theme of an area (such as Beach Boys at the Epcot entrance for Flower and Garden), you dilute the impact of the original idea."

Oh come on now, the soundtrack is perfect this year for Flower and Garden--an excellent blend of 50s and 60s pop music.

I would agree this is a minor point. But every time they degrade the core of Epcot it lessens the impact of the original design

5) "There are still parades and stage shows, to be sure. But not everywhere. Epcot once had parades and a sky spectacular above its lagoon during the daytime. Where did this go?"

Death in "Surprise in the Sky" and conflicting pathways are your answer. Imagine trying to make it to the Japanese restaurant in time for the reservation---only to be stopped because a parade is passing by and everyone is seated/standing watching it pass. This was the dilemma faced with the Tapestry of Nations parade.

Crowd control is a sad excuse not to have a parade, especially in a park blessed with size. The walkways on Epcot have plenty of room to stage a parade. Also if you follow that logic Magic Kingdom should never have a parade. Navigating the crowds during a parade is always a challenge, especially up main street. Mickey's Jammin' Jungle Parade in Animal Kingdom is even worse.



I think Kevin's main point is most of the changes have been subtle ones that whittle away at the core of what made Disney great. Its all the little details that count and make Disney, um well Disney. Disney needs to wake up and realize this.

Rich

DIAC1987 wrote:
Let me refute some of these:

1) Yak and Yeti I believe is operated by a third-party company, not Disney. Yak and Yeti's quick service prices are actually higher than the typical one in the parks.

Kevin addresses this point in the article. I'm paraphrasing. But basically he says if it is on Disney's property, it is their problem. I actually agree with him here.

DIAC1987 wrote: 2) Keeping the park open late is a waste of money, because the amount of people willing to stay awake until past 10:00 after a long day of walking around the park(s) is very minimal.

They aren't closing the parks at 10. They are closing at 7 or 8. It doesn't change the fact that the parks used to be open past 10 regularly. The attendance must have been significant as that was the policy for a very long time.

DIAC1987 wrote: 3) "When you add music that clashes with the original theme of an area (such as Beach Boys at the Epcot entrance for Flower and Garden), you dilute the impact of the original idea."

Oh come on now, the soundtrack is perfect this year for Flower and Garden--an excellent blend of 50s and 60s pop music.

This one is just a matter of personal preference. Kevin doesn't feel like that Festival fits Epcot very well. I've never been to the festival, but I can't really imagine it bothering me.

DIAC1987 wrote: 4) "This is always a controversial topic. Long time readers know that while I know FastPass is free for everyone, the reality is that many first timers don't know how to use it, or that it's free, or how to maximize usage of it. Taken as a whole, this means the only reason the system generates time savings for users is that other people are not using it, so in practical terms, it's an unequal system."

It is not our fault that despite us bashing the Fastpass system over the heads of guests, they STILL know nothing about it. The FastPass system is described to you on the maps, on television, and even on the way to the parks when traveling by bus. Sorry, but its not Disney being lazy, but its the guests not paying attention.

Kevin isn't accusing Disney of being lazy. He's saying that he does not like the Fastpass system because it creates an inequity among guests. Fastpass doesn't create ride capacity out of this air. It benefits those who know how to use it at the expense of those who don't or choose not to use it. That's really not something you can argue against.

As someone who uses Fast Pass, I don't mind the system. But I see his point. Also, I have seen people abuse FP pretty badly. I do think the parks would be better off without it for many of the reasons Kevin mentioned in his article.

DIAC1987 wrote: 5) "There are still parades and stage shows, to be sure. But not everywhere. Epcot once had parades and a sky spectacular above its lagoon during the daytime. Where did this go?"

Death in "Surprise in the Sky" and conflicting pathways are your answer. Imagine trying to make it to the Japanese restaurant in time for the reservation---only to be stopped because a parade is passing by and everyone is seated/standing watching it pass. This was the dilemma faced with the Tapestry of Nations parade.

Just becuase these previous events had challenges associated with them doesn't mean that no effort should be made to create new forms of entertainment.

When Kevin talks about Declining by Degrees, he is often talking about something that was offered in the past and is not offered now. His argument is that if Disney is going to take away something (even if it is for valid reasons) they should replace it with something of equal (or greater) value.

DIAC1987 wrote: 6) "Loss of quiet corners and special areas. The play area on a Viking ship at Norway is perhaps the most visible special area that's now gone, but there are loads of quiet corners which were once content to merely be quiet, out of the way places for people to relax. Increasingly, it seems like every square meter is required to generate money. The invasion of the parks by DVC is only one such example (did you know there is DVC in Tomorrowland as well as Frontierland?). Apparently executives didn't know people want to sometimes just relax and catch up with their day."

I really disagree here...there are plenty of places for you to relax and sit down--this applies especially to Epcot and magic Kingdom, and applies to Animal Kingdom. Hollywood Studios..not so much.

These areas still exist. But they are less common than they once were. If the trend continues indefinitely, they will become rather hard to find.

DIAC1987 wrote: 7) "I've seen the local blimp hovering over the parks more often lately, giving ads on the side."

He went during ESPN: The Weekend.

He didn't indicate this was a one-time event. He said "lately" leading one to believe that there has been an increased number of occurrences over multiple visits.

DIAC1987 wrote:
He does have some points...but other points are just stupid...

Some points are weaker than other. But he says up front that the point of Declining by Degrees is that the little (seemingly insignifcant) stuff matters when taken as a whole.

I think he got more right than wrong.

rdeacon wrote:I think Kevin's main point is most of the changes have been subtle ones that whittle away at the core of what made Disney great.

And as long as people are willing to make up lame excuses for why the multi-billion company needs to cut corners at our expense, I don't see things getting any better. Even the people who agree with the article simply note it and continue to go, so...

its a society thing in my opinion. i'm seeing the same things in my hometown, Restaurants, malls, etc. we have traded quantity for quality. but we are consumers and want to be fed something...sadly its still the top notch for the industry...where else would you go to expierience what you do in Disney?

Interesting insights. Still, you'll never convince me to give up my FastPass. I have a 4-year-old and FastPass is indispensible!!!