Declining by Degrees

Post by **rdeacon** » Apr Thu 26, 2007 9:23 am

After a brief break, Kevin Yee has posted another installment of his Declining By Degrees column

http://miceage.com/kevinyee/ky042607a.htm

Must say I have noticed most of the issues Kevin talks about in this article. But was surprised at how many places as a whole are now just forgotten, abandoned areas.

I really noticed River Country this last trip. I went to Mickey's Backyard BBQ, which is held at the Campground in a pavilion, right next to River County. I noted that it seemed like such a waste. The whole area was like frozen in time.

Very sad. Walt would not be pleased.

This story nails Disney's current problem.

There's a famous story that Walt once demanded popcorn carts keep their supply of popcorn full until the very minute the park closed, because it was more aesthetically pleasing. Even more than that, Walt realized that the opposite choice, to allow the supply of popcorn to dwindle down to near-empty by the time the park closed, may save a teeny-tiny bit of money, but sent an unmistakable message to park patrons—"get out, for we are closing soon."

Disney not only stops making popcorn, they leave the empty cart for guest to see.

How, and why did they get away from Walt's vision and passion!?!

Rich

Post by **acp** » Apr Thu 26, 2007 10:23 am

rdeacon wrote:This story nails Disney's current problem.

There's a famous story that Walt once demanded popcorn carts keep their supply of popcorn full until the very minute the park closed, because it was more aesthetically pleasing. Even more than that, Walt realized that the opposite choice, to allow the supply of popcorn to dwindle down to near-empty by the time the park closed, may save a teeny-tiny bit of money, but sent an unmistakable message to park patrons—"get out, for we are closing soon."
Disney not only stops making popcorn, they leave the empty cart for guest to see.

Having worked on the WDW popcorn carts, I can probably say something here.

Whilst I was being trained on the popcorn carts, I was told that I should aim to never run out of popcorn (obviously if you run out, you can't sell any more). I was told that when it looks like I was going to run out soon that I should make some more.

I was also told that if it starts to get towards closing time, and there aren't as many guests around to make smaller batches.. So you don't have to throw as much away when the cart gets closed.

I should also probably point out that 9.9 times out of 10 the cart will be closed before the park closes.

Of course, you could also look at it another way. When I was working on the popcorn carts, I always tried to keep the popcorn thingie full. This wasn't really as easy as it sounds. Really. You can have the thing almost full for a while, then all of a sudden a huge queue forms for no aparent reason, and you end up running out whilst you're busy dealing with the long line of guests - during which you can start another batch going, but then it still takes 10-15 minutes for the popcorn to.. uh.. pop. In that 10-15 minutes you run out of popcorn due to the line of guests.

It was the same story with pretzels and churros on the other cart. I couldn't figure out a reliable way of gagueing when to order more (because the pretzels and churros are brought out from backstage rather than being prepared in the cart). There's then the time it takes for the person who's bringing them to you to get to you (since they have more than one cart to deal with). They say to order more when you get down to 20 of either. Often you'd sell those 20 before the fresh ones arrive.

No matter what you do, there are always times when things don't go according to plan

Andy.

Post by **subsonic** » Apr Thu 26, 2007 10:27 am

I was also told that if it starts to get towards closing time, and there aren't as many guests around to make smaller batches.. So you don't have to throw as much away when the cart gets closed.

This is exactly what Walt didn't want. What, they lose about 2 dollars per cart (a dollar for popcorn and a dollar for the 15 minutes of pay it takes for the CM to empty it?)

Disney is so darn cheap now. Everything looks good a spread sheet. I hate those people. HATE.

packwingfn · Post by **packwingfn** » Apr Thu 26, 2007 12:42 pm

I wish walt could see how the people are running his parks nowadays.

Post by **rdeacon** » Apr Thu 26, 2007 5:56 pm

What is the management of WDW thinking

screamscape.com wrote:From what I’ve been told, the kids attending the Walt Disney World Grad Night event found the “ROCK IT” version of Space Mountain to be a disappointment. No special light or sound system was added to the attraction, instead it seems that they just pumped a musical soundtrack over the existing PA system installed inside the hollow mountain which was not designed for that kind of use.

What a cheap way out... and very un-Disney

Rich

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Apr Fri 27, 2007 6:11 am

rdeacon wrote:http://miceage.com/kevinyee/ky042607a.htm

Thanks for the link, that was a good article.

Really just the final slap in the face to Mr. Toad. They had to close his ride, while all the time the lagoon across the way was unused...and then eventually replaced with something more boring than the park down the street from my place.

And those River Country photos made me all misty. I think they should re-open it as Fort Wilderness' "hotel pool". It won't draw in huge crowds like the bigger water parks, but it's a good place for small kids and a really nice place to chill.

It'd be a nice downtime day if you're staying at the Wilderness Lodge too.

I think I read a while ago that it has something to with using lake water (the same reason you can't swim in the lakes any more), but there's got to be a solution to that.

Post by **spaulo** » Apr Fri 27, 2007 10:39 am

Unfortunately in this case, the solution may simply be too expensive... either pumping in water from elsewhere or filtering the lake water. That's a huge expense for a hotel pool OR for a third water park...

Post by **rdeacon** » Apr Fri 27, 2007 12:06 pm

There have been a bunch of rumors to why River Country Closed.

Don't think Disney has provided a clear answer.

My general guess would be the health and safety issues of using lake water.

Here is a great aerial view of RC

From this angle you can see the muck, umm Makes me want to swim!

Click here for a map of RC in its prime.

I'm sure if Disney wanted they could have found a way to re-configure the way River Country so it used chlorinated water, instead of the lake water. They could have walled off the lake waters access and converted RC to "pool" water.

Rich

Post by **Dr. Ravenscroft** » Apr Fri 27, 2007 2:40 pm

Hey I done did swim in that there water when I was a youngin' and it ain't done me no harm. I always remembered it as a favorite place to go and play. My brother and I have very good memories of bay cove. I still remember playing Pirates there, I do remember always wanting those guns they have over at the fort on Tom Sawyer island, that would be cool. But first they would have to bring it back from the dead.

Why don't they just build a concrete wall around the perimeter, the area that touches the water, so they can keep the lake water from contaminating the pool water. The wall could be a concrete core and have a facade that looks like wood timbers or rocks like a jetty. That would work to keep it sanitary.

sgrfunk · Post by **sgrfunk** » Apr Fri 27, 2007 2:55 pm

I agree that Walt Disney would be unhappy with the way things are run these days. I'm all for ride improvements, but service and maintenance is going slack. I remember eating lunch at Epcot in the Norway Pavillion and quite a few of the tables outside were covered with litter. There was also a bit of food on the ground which the birds were eating. They need better cleanup in these parks.

borjoyzee · Post by **borjoyzee** » Apr Fri 27, 2007 3:38 pm

Yeah, I have to notice a decline on Disney quality in WDW. What a shame really.

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Apr Sat 28, 2007 5:26 am

rdeacon wrote:I'm sure if Disney wanted they could have found a way to re-configure the way River Country so it used chlorinated water, instead of the lake water. They could have walled off the lake waters access and converted RC to "pool" water.

I agree. Also the dangerous bug in the lake is one particular species, so there might be a reasonably easy way of killing it.

They could still sell the expensive lemonade, ice cream and other snacks and probably make a profit. If they can keep Stormalong Bay up and running, they could certainly keep River Country going.

I imagine the opening of Typhoon Lagoon sealed River Country's fate. Once you experience that, RC is a real downer if you aren't properly prepared for the difference.

I also wonder if people are just so used to sparkly water parks now that they can't deal with the brown water.

It's really lame that there are so many beaches in WDW that you can't actually use.

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Apr Sat 28, 2007 10:27 am

One sure sign of decline...the amount of lights that are out. If you look while walking at MGM, it seem about a third of the lights on the signs are out. EPCOT is the same way, a lot of the neon and cold cathode lights are out. Next time your in EPCOT try counting lights out, it's scary!!!
Also the fountains in EPCOT only half work most of the time!! It's amazing that most people don't notice. When was the last time you had one of the water fountains talk to you??

Post by **subsonic** » Apr Mon 30, 2007 12:04 pm

We (myself included) complain so much about the decline of the parks and the lack of imagination in attractions. Why does it seem there's nothing that can be done? I really wish Disney would have online chat sessions with management or something. There's got to be some way to get through to them. Sigh...

Hathaway · Post by **Hathaway** » Apr Mon 30, 2007 11:55 pm

As long as people go, there is no problem. However, as a long time Disney fanatic it breaks my heart a little every time I go to WDW. I remember it in 84 and in 94 and how magical it all was. I do not begrudge Disney a single dollar they make. For the experiences they sell, the money is worth it. But I would rather prices were increased and the quality was increased along with it instead of the current model which seems to be . . . let's see how little we have to offer and how much we can charge for it.
I apologize for any excess cynicism, but this topic makes most of my WDW trips bittersweet at some point.