Disney's biggest blunder?

[DaWhoLaGn]

On the topic of Toad vs. Pooh, did Mr. Toad regularly have hour, hour and a half waits on even slow days? Winnie the Pooh is among the most popular rides in the park, and while I wish Mr. Toad was still there, I don't see it as attrocious. They put in a ride that's popular, and it does fit.

I can't fight that logic too much. I'm still bitter though.

[MansionButler]

On the topic of Toad vs. Pooh, did Mr. Toad regularly have hour, hour and a half waits on even slow days? Winnie the Pooh is among the most popular rides in the park, and while I wish Mr. Toad was still there, I don't see it as attrocious. They put in a ride that's popular, and it does fit.

I can't fight that logic too much. I'm still bitter though.

Understandable. I miss it, too.

I wish MK had planned its Fantasyland a little better. It may be the land I'm least interested in, but it shouldn't be such an afterhought.

[kronk's angel]

I think WDW Fantasyland suffers a bit in comparison with DL Fantasyland -- arguably the world's greatest example of the theme park. It is just fabulous.

[MansionButler]

I believe at least some of those screams are on tape. I'm sure some ToT fan knows for sure...

Would be interesting to hear the natural screams, but I like the added atmosphere of the recordings.

Got an answer from my roommate. There actually are recorded screams, BUT they're very faint. He says most of what you hear in the park is the actual people. If they only played the recorded stuff, you wouldn't be able to hear them any farther away than Fast Pass.

[Captain Schnemo]

I remember hearing screams when the ride appeared to be empty...maybe they were easier to hear because the park was pretty quiet at the time.

As for the Toad thing, the real estate argument doesn't fly. There's a ton of room at 20K right now, and in Disneyland, they put Alice in Wonderland on the second floor.

[spaulo]

in Disneyland, they put Alice in Wonderland on the second floor.

Half of it, anyway... the ride itself is two stories, and half+ of it is on the ground floor.

[Captain Schnemo]

"...bigger and better idea..."

I can't say as I find the theming the slightest bit interesting (DCA just seems like a flawed concept from the start, and pouring good money after bad doesn't really excite me either), but it's always good to see that they are at least taking theming into account.

At least if DCA acts as a sponge to keep the Pixar projects out of Disneyland proper, it'll be doing something useful.

There's just something fundamentally stupid about recreating a cheap carnival atmosphere when the entire genesis of the Disney parks was based on the fact that places like that suck. Same goes for the Dinopoopatarium at AK.

[MansionButler]

I remember hearing screams when the ride appeared to be empty...maybe they were easier to hear because the park was pretty quiet at the time.

As for the Toad thing, the real estate argument doesn't fly. There's a ton of room at 20K right now, and in Disneyland, they put Alice in Wonderland on the second floor.

I think real estate applies in the form of the actual area of Fantasyland. Right behind the Village Hause, Small World and Ariel's Grotto is a massive cast area and parking lot. Past that there's the railroad, and past that roads, more parking lots, Disney University, and the Monorail station. Then there's Toon Town, Tomorrowland and Liberty Square on all sides. They're penned up. There's no area to expand to. The only way you can put something new in is by getting rid of something already there.

And you can't build underground in Florida.

[addlema]

You can if your Disney! Magic Kingdom sits approx 15-20 feet above the true ground level on top fo the util doors!

[MansionButler]

You can if your Disney! Magic Kingdom sits approx 15-20 feet above the true ground level on top fo the util doors!

Yeah, exactly. You're not going to build into the utilidor. Have you ever been in there? It's enough of a mess as it is.

And under Fantasyland is particularly so. Costuming, cafeteria, the most important tunnels, lockers, waterways, DACs, sound boards, etc.

[Captain Schnemo]

Right behind the Village Hause, Small World and Ariel's Grotto is a massive cast area and parking lot.

That could easily be remodeled into actual attraction space. How hard is it to move a parking lot?

And, of course, there's all that 20K space which is really not being utilized by the Pooh area. Plus, they could mow down that whole useless Mickeyland (that was supposed to be temporary) and I doubt anyone would complain...except for perhaps the little girls waiting hours to meet the princesses (but their parents wouldn't complain!).

There's really no real estate argument at all. Seriously, look at an aerial photo. There's tons of space back there. That's the whole point of WDW.

And, as I already mentioned, they built up in Disneyland.

[MansionButler]

Right behind the Village Hause, Small World and Ariel's Grotto is a massive cast area and parking lot.

That could easily be remodeled into actual attraction space. How hard is it to move a parking lot?

And, of course, there's all that 20K space which is really not being utilized by the Pooh area. Plus, they could mow down that whole useless Mickeyland (that was supposed to be temporary) and I doubt anyone would complain...except for perhaps the little girls waiting hours to meet the princesses (but their parents wouldn't complain!).

There's really no real estate argument at all. Seriously, look at an aerial photo. There's tons of space back there. That's the whole point of WDW.

And, as I already mentioned, they built up in Disneyland.

I've been around that area so much I'm not sure how they could feasibly move thousands of cast members so drastically, as well as all their locations, without SERIOUSLY hampering efficiency.

The point of WDW was space, but it was a point missed in some of the park planning. The parks themselves have boundries, which is the biggest problem you'll hear when Disney/MGM is discussed. Designers are bound by what the park limits are. Which is what they're trying to avoid with DAK.

It's not just a parking lot. It's the entire access area to the utilidor. I think maybe you have to see it to understand how pent up they are in that area. And you can't build underground and take someone under the tracks like you can in California.

I wouldn't be opposed to restructuring Toon Town, though.

[meticulus9]

the worst blunder is the giant hat at MGM!

[Captain Schnemo]

I've been around that area so much I'm not sure how they could feasibly move thousands of cast members so drastically, as well as all their locations, without SERIOUSLY hampering efficiency.

Relatively simply. Just build the new facilities first (should any be necessary, which I am still not at all convinced of), move everyone at their leisure, and get on with the show.

If they can gut one attraction for another, they can certainly move office space and parking lots (not that they would even need to do any of that to find room for a Pooh-sized ride).

Seriously, this is Disney. They dropped a billion on a theme park in the '80s. If moving some office cubes is beyond their capability, it's time for them to shut down and put up a strip mall where the MK used to be.

Designers are bound by what the park limits are.

That's not so much of a factor at the MK. Look at an aerial photo. Besides, Imagineers are clever lads. If they can't build down, they can build up.

It's certainly no more difficult than half the stuff they've done at the parks.

[MansionButler]

I've been around that area so much I'm not sure how they could feasibly move thousands of cast members so drastically, as well as all their locations, without SERIOUSLY hampering efficiency.

Relatively simply. Just build the new facilities first (should any be necessary, which I am still not at all convinced of), move everyone at their leisure, and get on with the show.

If they can gut one attraction for another, they can certainly move office space and parking lots (not that they would even need to do any of that to find room for a Pooh-sized ride).

Seriously, this is Disney. They dropped a billion on a theme park in the '80s. If moving some office cubes is beyond their capability, it's time for them to shut down and put up a strip mall where the MK used to be.

Designers are bound by what the park limits are.

That's not so much of a factor at the MK. Look at an aerial photo. Besides, Imagineers are clever lads. If they can't build down, they can build up.

It's certainly no more difficult than half the stuff they've done at the parks.

I have looked at the aerial photo and I've worked there.

So where would the cast members get into the park, then? There's no other place where it would be possible to build an access point to the utilidor because every other place has been covered up.

And it's not a bunch of cubicles that you're talking about taking out. It's pretty much the nerve center of the Magic Kingdom.

I think maybe you have to actually go around the Magic Kingdom and see how back stage is constructed to understand.