tell me something good

yodiwan1 · Post by **yodiwan1** » Nov Tue 18, 2008 7:50 pm

I understand what you are saying JS, and I know everything is not 100% great, I can name plenty of attractions that could use shutting down or a facelift, but for someone to come onto the board, and give his or her point, which may influence others, and that person refuses to go to the parks for over a decade I feel can be misleading. Up until today, i always thought Schnemo still went to the parks, but was upset how they were being run. To not experience them for a decade, which means the entire time AK has been open, and give opinions on all the attractions he has never experiences when people ask for opinions is wrong. If I never saw a movie, I would not say how it was, nor would I try to influence others about it. Now if he lived somewhere veyr far, or could not afford it, I would understand. he specifically has stated he chooses not to go to WDW, yet all he does is bash it. I always felt this was a very positive forum. Even when we discuss sensitive matter we still can get along and joke around(like with the election). It seems that no matter what the post it by Schnemo it is very negative. Now, I am not trying to start an arguement, just point out what I am reading here. I thought this was a board for Disney fans, not anti-fans.

Post by **js3901** » Nov Tue 18, 2008 8:12 pm

You're missing Schnemo's point (I feel). I think that Schnemo has made it quite clear that he is a Disney fan, just a CLASSIC Disney Fan. I do not see how he is misleading people here, as he says that he hasn't seen/done things (hence this thread) and would like opinions of people who HAVE so he may be tempted to go back.

now, I do see your point in thinking "oh, he hasn't been there in 10 years, so how can he judge?" thing you have going on. If Schenmo was saying he's NEVER been to the parks, I would be on your side there. but he said he HAS been to the parks before. I'm sure he feels (though I really don't want to speak for him definitively) much like Kevin Yee's Declining by Degrees column over on Micechat, or like many people towards the end of the Eisner regime.

I believe it's time to go back on the original topic. if you'd like to continue this discussion, feel free to PM or email me. or direct your opinions to the person you're refering to directly, rather than in a public forum.

yodiwan1 · Post by **yodiwan1** » Nov Tue 18, 2008 9:09 pm

I understand what you were saying JS< but his original question was what good has happened in the past few months. I just don't see how that is relevent to someone who hasn't been there in 10 years. Over 1/2 of WDW has probably had changes in that span, so asking about the last few months, when theres been a 10 year gap seems a bit irrelevant to me.

DisBeamer · Post by **DisBeamer** » Nov Tue 18, 2008 9:26 pm

Captain Schnemo wrote:That DVD extra on Spirited Away was pretty gross, huh?

Well, I was specifically referring to his putting the kibosh on all direct-to-dvd dreck when he came into power, and doing a rapid 180 on that for whatever reason. But that works too.

That's an excellent point. In the post hip-hop culture, though, lots of "geniuses" seem content to build their art on the backs of other people's work...so it's not entirely implausible. Unlikely, though, yes. Particularly when the company isn't even trying to be itself. No one there is aspiring to that particular brand of greatness any more.

I want to believe (a la Mulder) that person is out there. I think Disney is enough of a cultural phenomenon that there are a lot of people - we on these boards included - that were 'raised on it'. I suspect they're becoming fewer and farther between with the rise of Spongebob and other franchises for kids, but there are still a lot of us (as evidenced by the fact there are a lot of people on these boards that make me feel old - btw, quit that, you guys). It doesn't seem completely unreasonable that there's one of us out there that has the chops to take the reins. So I continue to wait for that person to be in the right place, at the right time.

I have no question the Imagineers are good at deploying tech (the Crush thing is very cool), only that they waste all this effort on a foundation of poop.

Alas, I can't argue with that. But sometimes I can be amused enough with the tech to overlook the odor.

She actually asked me to explain the shrimp to some kids when she got a little tongue-tied delivering her spiel. You'll be happy to know I did not pollute the minds of the children with the fiction above, although it was tempting.

A shame. Think of the 'what I did on my field trip' reports that would have spawned.

yodiwan1 wrote:I thought this was a board for Disney fans, not anti-fans.

I think there's a difference there that you're (perhaps) overlooking. I mean, I've been on slam boards for stuff before (not Disney, but other things) and I think the tone you're talking about is a little different, in that Schnemo's points tend to be more of the 'it used to be better - it pains me that it isn't now' rather than 'everything sucks, I hate Disney', y'know? I know some of my own posts are in that vein, so I can speak to it from the perspective I have, anyway; apologies for putting words in anyone else's mouth.

My trip in October was both great and sad, seeing 'the World' through my parents' eyes when they hadn't been there for almost a decade. I've been many more times than them in the interim, and I realized as they pointed things that I'd become somewhat desensitized to changes that I feel - when I think about it - are negative. Our walk through Future World was particularly depressing for me when they reminded me of things we'd done in the late 90s that were no longer possible, and how much we'd enjoyed them. Did I still have a great time? Yes. Am I going back? Yes (as of today, in roughly 2 months - yay birthday!). Overall, I still find enough to like that the things I dislike don't overwhelm my enjoyment, and I know I am fortunate in that because obviously not everyone does.

But I personally think any one of us who puts this much effort as any of us on the boards do into discussing Disney must still harbor a lot of enthusiasm for the topic, even if we don't all agree on the specifics. I've seen (and spoken with) people who 'hate Disney' - as I'm sure a lot of us have when we've said we're going for the Nth time. Those people who never 'got it', I think those are the anti-fans. Everyone here, who discusses the parks we love(d) so much, we're all fans; fans with different viewpoints, but fans none the less.

Just my 2 cents. Ramble ends in 3... 2 ... 1.

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Nov Wed 19, 2008 12:13 am

yodiwan1 wrote:For somone who hates it so much now why do you continue to hang around the boards then?

Because it's a topic that interests me. (And it's fun to analyze your own beliefs. Thinking is fun! More people should try it.) Disney was a huge part of my life for decades, and I used to be an apologist who thought they could do no wrong. I made excuses as things started going sour, but when they pulled the rug out from under me (around 1998 or so), I realized I couldn't continue to look the other way.

I also found myself being increasingly annoyed when I was supposed to be having fun on vacation, so it was a natural to stop returning to the abusive spouse, even though we had a lot of good times.

There is always the potential for recovery, however, so I monitor things, looking for signs of hope. Most of these come in the form of "they failed to ruin X", which is not great, but I'm taking a long term view. Just like if you don't like a president, you just have to wait them out, and eventually you'll get a new one. In the meantime, you don't give up on the country for good. You just try to ride it out and hope that too many things don't get permanently broken.

By not experiencing new things and judging yourself,does not let you judge new attractions.

You're judging them based on a different criteria. I don't get too excited about things if I don't care for the thought process behind them. I'm willing to look at them, and if they had a Soarin' at a mall I was visiting, I might check it out, but I'm not going to take a destination vacation to see something I have fundamental issues with.

It's as if I were a vegetarian and a friend kept trying to convince me to try this really awesome steakhouse. I wouldn't doubt that the friend was satisfied or that the steak might be awesome, but I'm just not interested.

"There;s a great big beautiful tomorrow!"

I sure hope so!

Oh, and for the record, I have seen the AK. It probably has my favorite park icon.

I thought this was a board for Disney fans, not anti-fans.

It's actually a forum based on classic Disney music, which is how I got here in the first place.

And, you know, from my point of view, it's the "yes men" who are the anti-fans. Supporting Disney's poor choices just enables them.

All I'm asking from Disney is for them to live up to their stated ideals. I want the MK to live up to what's inscribed on its plaque, and the same for Epcot. (These are Disney's "contracts" with us.) I'm not asking Disney to be something it never was or never claimed to aspire to. Of course, I realize this will probably never happen, but most things people hope for are unlikely, despite what singing insects might tell you.

Actually, the point of this thread was try to find something hopeful, and there have been a couple of decent things mentioned.

Additionally, there's nothing wrong with discussing ideas like adults. I'm not personally offended by anything you've said. You simply have different tastes.

There's a larger thing that Disney used to represent, and that's something you don't personally care about, but for some people that was the single most appealing and important concept.

I was always amazed by Disney's ability to appeal to these two different groups of people. A common analogy I bring up is the summer blockbuster that is actually well-written, well-acted, well-directed, intelligent, and with something to say. Most aren't, but occasionally one works on all levels and achieves great commercial success. That's the kind of thing I'm interested in...quality entertainment that is also a hit with the masses.

DisBeamer wrote:I want to believe (a la Mulder) that person is out there.

Actually, there are a lot of us out here, but we seem to not be the personality types that make good CEOs. (Or, probably more accurately, our lives don't lead us down paths that would put us in the right place at the right time. I think I would be a kickass Disney CEO, both in terms of product quality and profits, but I'm never going to get that opportunity.) That's probably why we worship Walt so much, for being "like us", but also capable of functioning in that other world, so he could actually get things done.

He managed to get there by having King Size Cajones and an insatiable drive to improve himself. Also, he didn't take over something else, he started from the ground up so there was no question who the Big Kahuna was. He never had to convince some corporate pinhead that his way was the best, he just kicked their ass in the marketplace and let his work speak for itself.

Post by **subsonic** » Nov Thu 20, 2008 12:01 pm

I carried this on here.

viewtopic.php?t=4917

delray · Post by **delray** » Nov Thu 20, 2008 9:11 pm

Here's some good news! Everybody's not a miserable, whiney, self- absorbed complainer like some I could name! I bet you're "the glass is half empty" kind of guy!

Regards,
Delray

yodiwan1 · Post by **yodiwan1** » Nov Thu 20, 2008 10:39 pm

wow, i never even took it that far.

DisBeamer · Post by **DisBeamer** » Nov Thu 20, 2008 11:10 pm

Really. If we can't manage to discuss things without resorting to personal attacks, I'm not sure I care to post here anymore.

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Nov Fri 21, 2008 3:43 am

That's OK, guys, my chain isn't yanked that easily.

To his actual point, you can ask Phil Gramm (who denied that the economy was in trouble and instead said we are "a nation of whiners") if whistling past the graveyard is really the best way to handle things. If something is wrong, it's best to acknowledge it, or it's never going to get better.

Sleepy90 · Post by **Sleepy90** » Nov Fri 21, 2008 4:04 am

As far as I can see the captain has done what every topic poster here is trying to do
and that is spark a debate.

I have followed this thread with interest some people I agree with and some I do not. I have never seen a personal attack on anyone before and hope not to again that is just low.

Maybe I am being naive but I thought the forums were for discussion, if you can not add to the discussion why post.

Esmeralda · Post by **Esmeralda** » Nov Fri 21, 2008 9:28 am

I know this isn't quite what you're looking for, but I was talking to a fork truck driver in a plant at work. The topic turned to Disney World and Disneyland and I saw his face light up as it never had before. That joy is the real magic no matter what changes have been made over the years.

Post by **subsonic** » Nov Fri 21, 2008 11:50 am

delray wrote:Here's some good news! Everybody's not a miserable, whiney, self- absorbed complainer like some I could name! I bet you're "the glass is half empty" kind of guy!

Other than a complainer, I don't think he's any of those. I complain as well. In fact, I think it's good news that we talk about things like this. Perhaps Disney will take a look and realize how they are failing.

Here's some good news: There ARE people like you, Schnemo who care about what the parks once were and are willing to voice their views on why Disney is Declining by degrees.

Here's some reading for everybody:
Kevin Yee's Declining by degrees
Epcot Central
Reimagineering

Perhaps these might put things into more of a perspective for you all

grumpyutboi · Post by **grumpyutboi** » Nov Sun 23, 2008 3:01 pm

Schnemo, I have great news for you with regards to the parks. On Nov 29 at 9:30 am my family which consists of my wife and I, our 13 year old son, 11 year old daughter, 7 year old daughter and or 6 year old son and please look into their eyes as we enter the park for the first time in 2 years. It always brings tears to my eyes to see their faces as we enter into the park. The joy, the excitement and the pure magic of Disney radiates from their eyes. This is what Mr. Disney imagined.

Our 11 year old daughter spilled boiling hot water on her lap on Friday and has some pretty severe 2nd degree burns and the tears that flowed from her beautiful big blue eyes when she thought that she had done something so wrong and that it was going to cause us to miss our trip coming up this week. There is magic in her eyes, her face and her mind. THIS is what the Disney parks are all about. I did tell her that if we have to rent a wheelchair of something for her so that this trip is the best ever that I would do that for her.