Monorail Expansion

[QuickGold]

Disney current has about 350 buses and over 1000 drivers.

Interesting fact Rich. Of course, it's not like all 350 buses are on the road all the time. I'd say maybe 50-60% are in operation on a normal day.

[rdeacon]

Interesting fact Rich. Of course, it's not like all 350 buses are on the road all the time. I'd say maybe 50-60% are in operation on a normal day.

Yeah.. can you imagine all thos buses out all at once...he he Traffic central. I also found out that Disney maintains all of the roads within its borders. So that had to be a high inital cost to pave them and then a cost to maintain them.

Just more food for thought


Rich

[jpsevil]

Adjust for inflation and you're pressed with the decision... "Do we extend the monorail, or do we build two... maybe three E-ticket Attractions?"

I agree that your statement is a big part of why the monorail hasn't been expanded. From the standpoint of drawing people to the parks, something like Everest is more likely to draw people to WDW (especially newer visitors)...not new monorail tracks.

I would love to see it happen, though. I'm just not holding my breath. I agree with the previous posters -- it's about the money. Disney's first priority is to its stockholders, not the guests.

[Vonderbach]

It helps to shed some new light on a subject. I think some of you are missing the alternative reasoning behind the lack of monorail service until now.

Firstly, Disney only recently completed Animal Kingdom a few years ago. Before that, it was Disney/Epcot.....and MGM was a separate entity for the most part. Not until Animal Kingdom did the Park Hopper really gain momentum in my opinion. I believe that Disney has seen a dramatic increase in traffic now that they have 4 parks offering a complete entertainment solution. In other words, they have a package to sell.

The achilles heel of the entire park hopper experience is the transportation system to and from the parks. Disney strives on giving visitors an extraordinary experience. Monorails are magical, buses are dull. Therefore, it only seems logical to complete what was started many years ago, regardless of the cost. The investment will offer a lifetime of enjoyment which will in turn create a more attractive package, thereby increasing the amount of park hopper tickets that are sold. More park hopper tickets = more profits.

You cannot look at something as massive as the monorail as a simple park enhancement to be lumped into the regular budget. It's an investment in the future, and one that should provide nice returns for Disney.

[QuickGold]

The achilles heel of the entire park hopper experience is the transportation system to and from the parks. Disney strives on giving visitors an extraordinary experience. Monorails are magical, buses are dull.

I'd venture to say that the Disney bus system is very good value and although it may took longer than driving your own car, you can go to WDW and know you don't need a car once you're in their parks. That can save you up to $200 (car rental cost).

I agree that the buses aren't as magical as the monorail system but with those crazy bus drivers that give you all that trivia and such, it works.

[subsonic]

The busses are free right?

[G2-4T]

Just like the monorail. They pulled the fareboxes out of the the second-hand ones and just opted not to get them on the new buses - on the RTS ones you can still see where they were.

[vfxpro]

Hey all. I happen to be a monorail pilot. (Come by and see me, I'll have you hop in the front..) Let me tell you what WDI, Disney and Reedy Creek tell me to tell my guests. Expansion is a nice idea. It probably will not happen. It's possible, but not probable. Here is why: Each train will cost approximately 12 - 14 million dollars. It's 1.5 million dollars for each mile of track. They would have to expand the monorail shop (located behind Space Mountain above the steam train housing which holds 10 of our 12 monorails). They would also have to expand or create a new TTC. Disney wants to have at least one station where "you can get there from here". There are many proposals. One is to have a track run North / South through the property. Another is to run a beam off of the epcot line to Disney/MGM in a non-loop shuttle type service. Another is to make a Downtown Disney line that connects to Saratoga Springs.

The improvement by 2010 does NOT mention monorails. That is a common misconception. It requires Disney to have an alternate and more effecient mode of transport other than buses. Disney has not ruled out light rail or wedway systems. Wedways can be automated, with live switching and cost less to maintain and operate.

Various members of WDI have told me everything from taking the monorails out to having monorail lines go everywhere. As a pilot I'm all for more lines, I think it would be great. I also think it would be great if they fix the current lines as well as the current trains. We drive them 12 - 18 hours a day at a frantic pace. Hope this sheds some light on the situation.

Hey folks

Just got back from the parks and went on the Behind the Steam Train tour [very good for anyone into railroads]. Anyway, the tour guide said that monorails to AK and MGM are in the works as the current Disney Transport bus routes will go over capacity in just about 2 years at the current pace. No exact dates specified but it sounds like a go for the project from the way he talked about it... About time too since they can haul a lot more than the buses, have lower operating costs, etc. plus are just plain more fun!

[Vonderbach]

Michael Eisner is probably the only advocate of Monorail removal. 8)

On a serious note, what needs fixing on the current lines? Are we talking about structural problems or inadequate maintenance?

And the last pilot I spoke to seemed to thoroughly enjoy his job, is that a common theme amongst pilots there? I always thought it would get somewhat boring, but this guy seemed to really enjoy his job.

[subsonic]

We drive them 12 - 18 hours a day at a frantic pace. Hope this sheds some light on the situation.

Maybe the drivers shouldn't go so fast when coming into the station

Thanks for the insightful update.

[vfxpro]

We drive them 12 - 18 hours a day at a frantic pace. Hope this sheds some light on the situation.

Maybe the drivers shouldn't go so fast when coming into the station

Thanks for the insightful update.

There are those of us pilots who pride ourselves on beating the speed governer around the beam and pulling into the station quite quickly. Our central command tower asks us to move around the beam at unrealistic rates. They really only want us in the station no more than 45 seconds. The current monorail beams need some patchwork and routine maintenence. The biggest ordeal is the trains. One by one they are replacing our old console with a touch screen that runs on windows 2000. They really need to just come out with the Mark VIII trains. The Mark VI are just old by now. They are a little more noisy. Things just happen when they get old..

Yes we do like our jobs. I'm a part time pilto because I always wanted to be. Some aspects of the job really suck, but piloting is a lot of fun. Especially coming out of the Contemporary. We fly down the hill, way past the speed limit. They are currently putting in automatic gates which will make our lives a little better. Constantly pulling gates gets boring.

[Vonderbach]

One by one they are replacing our old console with a touch screen that runs on windows 2000.

And this is supposed to make your guests feel more comfortable?

Attention guests, the Gold Monorail has just crashed...err, I mean the computer "in" the Gold monorail. Sorry for the confusion.

[wallerman8]

But the fact is the same Busses are horrible you have to wait a very long time for them. You are more likely going to stand.(with little kids this is not easy. The M.R.s are just better in so many ways. Wait time is almost nothing. More likely to get a seat and much fater getting from point A to B. Besides with those new buses that are mainly for standing I drive my car most of the time....Unless I am at M.K. and I want to go to Epcot or a resort, etc. I could go on forever but for everyone's sake I will not.

[G2-4T]

I'm amazed they actually think you'll be in and out in 45 seconds, I've worked on rail transit and we shoot for 20-30s station dwell times for our drivers and that is with fast moving commuter crowds. With gate throwing, strollers, etc. I wouldn't expect any less than a good minute at the mainline stations [the resorts could be less if the crowd is ready to move]. I can see how they are pushing the limits there! And with the kind of work those trains have put in they are due up for gradual replacement, what is the year-built for the fleet? I still can't believe they are putting in computer consoles, how do you like it? Crews here like the old school controls - you can feel what you are doing...

[vfxpro]

But the fact is the same Busses are horrible you have to wait a very long time for them. You are more likely going to stand.(with little kids this is not easy. The M.R.s are just better in so many ways. Wait time is almost nothing. More likely to get a seat and much fater getting from point A to B. Besides with those new buses that are mainly for standing I drive my car most of the time....Unless I am at M.K. and I want to go to Epcot or a resort, etc. I could go on forever but for everyone's sake I will not.

Hate to burst everyones bubble, the Mark VI trains are designed so that 70% of all the riders STAND. Yes monorail is much better, more effecient, they dont compete with tourists on the road and they are cleaner to the environment. On the express beam in the evening, we try to get a train into the station every 90 seconds. Earlier in the day you have the day crew pilots and they tend to drive a bit slower.

The average cycle time for the express beam with 4 trains is 9 - 10 minutes. The average cycle time on the resort beam with 4 trains is about 17 minutes. The average cycle time on the Epcot beam with 4 trains is about 18 - 20 minutes. Our central command asks us to maintain these or lower numbers when possible. Guests get so p*** off at us ( I get cursed out EVERY day that I drive) because it appears to them that when they run up the platform, we close the doors. It's nothing personal. If a train in in a station more than 1:30 on the express beam usually there is a train holding outside the station waiting. That annoys the pilots and slows down the beam. We have to keep moving. If there is a guest situation (there always is) it can take the whole beam down.

My favorite question is "how do you steer?" I get that all the time, I'm shocked.