WDW Testing New Electric Bus

[theBIGyowski]

and of course any money saved by TDO via fuel savings will be passed along to the consumers right?

Because electric vehicles are so cheap?

according to Father (CoP) they are also quiet...which aggravates the family dog

[cy1229]

and of course any money saved by TDO via fuel savings will be passed along to the consumers right?

Because electric vehicles are so cheap?

according to Father (CoP) they are also quiet...which aggravates the family dog

The up-front cost is considerably more expensive than conventional vehicles with internal combustion engines. The question is, how much savings is gained by less maintenance and not having to buy fuel that is becoming more and more expensive. We could do a quick calculation and compare the number of gallons of diesel with the number of kWh needed for the same number of miles to see what the cost plays out to be, but my gut tells me the equivalent amount of electricity is much, much, much less expensive than diesel fuel. So then the real question is, what is the payback period? Is it practical to make the greater purchase price worth it in the long run? Do these vehicles have that kind of life expectancy?

[Wizzard419]

True, but usually the break-even point for electric can be 10+ years (similar to solar) and also has the risk that some electric cars have where when a battery dies it is an expensive replacement. A Tesla Roadster battery replacement is like 40k and if you let it lose all power it ruins the battery.

It will be interesting to see if they can handle the specific demands of the resorts with fewer stops and higher speeds.

[Len90]

I actually just found out about it right now. I have been a bit out of the loop lately as I've been working on getting ready for a move and working. However, to me it comes as no surprise. I'm guessing this will be very similar to the designline bus Disney demonstrated in 2008. That was an unsuccessful test and the bus was later returned to the manufacturer.

As for the Disney diesel fleet, last I heard it was B-20 being run in them. 20% biodiesel and 80% conventional diesel.

[BenB]

Respectfully, I submit that you are misinformed.

Maybe! While it all sounds great, I'm still not sure how well the theory will translate into practice. I could see hybrid buses, but all-electric... well, I think I'm just a couple panels too far left on the Carousel of Progress.

[Amy]

and of course any money saved by TDO via fuel savings will be passed along to the consumers right?

Because electric vehicles are so cheap?

according to Father (CoP) they are also quiet...which aggravates the family dog

My favorite comment in this thread so far BIG ~ well said!

[cy1229]

To be honest, if Disney knew what the frack they were doing with their bus fleets, they would collect all waste oil from all the restaurants, hire a chemical engineer to turn that into biodiesel, and do a retrofit on their diesel buses to install new seals and hoses that are biodiesel compatible. Then for less than $1 a gallon plus labor costs they could produce their own biodegradable, safe, non-toxic fuel from something they have to pay to get rid of anyway, and it would be much more durable than an all-electric bus. Still just as noisy, but much, much cleaner and environment friendly.

Electric buses are awesome, and I'm still excited they're taking a step in the right direction, but you're right, Wiz, the batteries are SUPER expensive, and almost not worth replacing when needed. Replacement batteries on a hybrid school bus are $8-10k. When a new bus is $60k and a hybrid bus is $100k, it's easy to see why so many districts only get the hybrid buses when they have a subsidy. Schools don't have the deep pockets Disney has, but Disney probably won't spend more than it has to for just any ol' reason.

[Cardinals314]

Maybe they will add simulated diesel smell to make the experience more immersive.

[Wizzard419]

To be honest, if Disney knew what the frack they were doing with their bus fleets, they would collect all waste oil from all the restaurants, hire a chemical engineer to turn that into biodiesel, and do a retrofit on their diesel buses to install new seals and hoses that are biodiesel compatible. Then for less than $1 a gallon plus labor costs they could produce their own biodegradable, safe, non-toxic fuel from something they have to pay to get rid of anyway, and it would be much more durable than an all-electric bus. Still just as noisy, but much, much cleaner and environment friendly.

Electric buses are awesome, and I'm still excited they're taking a step in the right direction, but you're right, Wiz, the batteries are SUPER expensive, and almost not worth replacing when needed. Replacement batteries on a hybrid school bus are $8-10k. When a new bus is $60k and a hybrid bus is $100k, it's easy to see why so many districts only get the hybrid buses when they have a subsidy. Schools don't have the deep pockets Disney has, but Disney probably won't spend more than it has to for just any ol' reason.

They might already do that since I think it was noted the present buses use a mix of biodiesel and diesel. Either that or they sell it to be made into cosmetics and fuel.

That is the big hump to get over with hybrid/electric cars, while their routine care is not as costly/frequent, when something goes wrong it can be a spectacular failure to the point of needing to replace a massive part of the system.

[Sharonofwindham]

From what I have been reading, this is the bus that they are testing:

http://www.proterra.com/index.php/products

Amazing! So happy they are giving this a try

[Sharonofwindham]

I have stayed at Fort Wilderness, and the internal buses are loud and smelly for such a peaceful place...never bothered me though. It was almost as if they were just part of the whole experience of staying there. Is there anyone else who loves that resort find the sounds of the buses as you laid awake in bed, um...comforting

[BuzzyFan]

To be honest, if Disney knew what the frack they were doing with their bus fleets, they would collect all waste oil from all the restaurants, hire a chemical engineer to turn that into biodiesel, and do a retrofit on their diesel buses to install new seals and hoses that are biodiesel compatible. Then for less than $1 a gallon plus labor costs they could produce their own biodegradable, safe, non-toxic fuel from something they have to pay to get rid of anyway, and it would be much more durable than an all-electric bus. Still just as noisy, but much, much cleaner and environment friendly.

Electric buses are awesome, and I'm still excited they're taking a step in the right direction, but you're right, Wiz, the batteries are SUPER expensive, and almost not worth replacing when needed. Replacement batteries on a hybrid school bus are $8-10k. When a new bus is $60k and a hybrid bus is $100k, it's easy to see why so many districts only get the hybrid buses when they have a subsidy. Schools don't have the deep pockets Disney has, but Disney probably won't spend more than it has to for just any ol' reason.

They might already do that since I think it was noted the present buses use a mix of biodiesel and diesel. Either that or they sell it to be made into cosmetics and fuel.

That is the big hump to get over with hybrid/electric cars, while their routine care is not as costly/frequent, when something goes wrong it can be a spectacular failure to the point of needing to replace a massive part of the system.

And after the hump, that's the valley. Yes, it's a great direction for transportation technology to go, but when initial and maintenance/repair pricing gets high enough that prospective users balk, there's considerably less incentive for R&D that would (ostensibly) bring those costs down. It's hard to imagine manufacturers making significant profits on those major vehicle and battery array replacements when there's a problem, although I'm no expert in this field to say one way or the other. (Certainly those all-electric vehicles aren't common enough yet nationwide that there could be profits generated by volume, right?)

I'd find it interesting if this tiny portion of Disney's bus fleet were effectively guinea pigged to test all-electric bus systems, maybe in return for significantly reduced repair/refit costs. Maybe the technology isn't feasible for the whole fleet, but that doesn't mean they couldn't participate in advancing it to that point.

[Wizzard419]

Arguably there is incentive to not research it as the oil industry would suffer if transportation didn't need them as much anymore.

[Cardinals314]

Arguably there is incentive to not research it as the oil industry would suffer if transportation didn't need them as much anymore.

I think even without Disney using gas, the oil industry will be fine. Car companies have tried selling electric cars for the public, but didn't sell well. The oil industry will continue to be big unless some remarkable technological achievement is made.

[fancyfeet]

This sounds like a change that might be a good idea. I always get nervous when they try certain things new.