Man with loaded gun arrested at Downtown Disney

mindflipper · Post by **mindflipper** » Nov Tue 03, 2009 9:43 am

Len90 wrote: Although the odds of something happening I feel are slim, I personally could never feel safe enough.

I don't, Len. I remember the 9/11 terrorists at one time considered Disney World as a target. And one person did bring a gun into Disneyland and fired it in the Haunted Mansion, leaving the holes in the glass to be covered with spiderwebs to conceal it. And these are the cases we hear about - what about the instances that never make it to light of day? The odds may not be a slim as we would like to believe they are...

Post by **Len90** » Nov Tue 03, 2009 12:20 pm

mindflipper wrote:
Len90 wrote: Although the odds of something happening I feel are slim, I personally could never feel safe enough.
I don't, Len. I remember the 9/11 terrorists at one time considered Disney World as a target. And one person did bring a gun into Disneyland and fired it in the Haunted Mansion, leaving the holes in the glass to be covered with spiderwebs to conceal it. And these are the cases we hear about - what about the instances that never make it to light of day? The odds may not be a slim as we would like to believe they are...

Maybe I still have my blinders half on. I do see the increased risk now with everyday life. I think the odds of an event like 9/11 happening are still relatively slim since I feel that we are now more vigilant and alert as to what is around us on an everyday basis. I know that is the way things have been in the NY Metro area since then. However, as time goes on, people have started to let their guard down. We must never do that since we will be opening ourselves to attack once again.

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Nov Tue 03, 2009 3:23 pm

Benjamin Franklin said:

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security

I think it comes down to what are you willing to give up? This whole thread, including my comments, has just started me thinking. It's so easy to say "that's bad, what is the government going to do about it?" Well in this case Disney. I don't like trusting the government with paving roads. I'm not talking politics, I'm talking the entrenched bureaucrats that are there no mater who is office. Then you have the politicians of any flavor that just want power. Now you have a large corporation that's gonna do what it has to, to give you the illusion of being safe. Just like checking handbags on the way in. How safe do you want to feel? What are you willing to give up to feel that way?

I'm a low volt technician, I call security systems (especially residential) false sense of security systems. The most important part of a security system? The sign out front and stickers on the windows, REALLY!! Security is about keeping your eyes open and when it comes down to it, if someone really wants to do something bad? Well they're gonna do it!

Does anybody remember where this started?

Mousekedude · Post by **Mousekedude** » Nov Tue 03, 2009 4:28 pm

Jacca5660 wrote:It's so easy to say "that's bad, what is the government going to do about it?" Well in this case Disney...
Now you have a large corporation that's gonna do what it has to, to give you the illusion of being safe. Just like checking handbags on the way in. How safe do you want to feel? What are you willing to give up to feel that way?

...if someone really wants to do something bad? Well they're gonna do it!

Does anybody remember where this started?

Well, as far as where it started, if you mean this discussion of feeling safe at Disney, we were commenting on how the incident with gang-bang gun boy has got us all thinking about security at the parks.

But to address some other parts of your comments I've quoted above, I agree to a certain extent with the Ben Franklin-freedom-vs.-government-provided-security issue. It's not good to sit around like sheep waiting to be sheared, hoping someone else (i.e. "big brother") will protect you. But at the same time, most of us are not exactly Special Forces ourselves, physically speaking; and many, for various personal reasons, do not like the idea of carrying weapons to protect themselves. That is why there are trained professionals (i.e. police) who are tasked with doing that. So government definitely has a role there.

As far as Disney goes, however, there is a big difference between entrenched government bureaucrats and corporate management. The bureaucrats know they're going to get paid no matter what happens to you, so they are not quite as interested in your personal welfare as someone who stands to lose money if you don't feel safe. So Disney has a definite vested interest in making sure that nothing happens at the parks. That having been said, it is obviously impossible for their security people to be everywhere and see everything, so sometimes things obviously will slip through. Hence the question: is there a real need for additional measures, such as metal detectors? I would tend to think that given the current state of the country vis-a-vis the gangs and other criminals, I wouldn't consider it a loss of my freedom at all if metal detectors were installed.
Comments...?

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Nov Tue 03, 2009 4:41 pm

Well said!! I'm not sure. On one hand you have the how much do I give up? Do they win just because I give it up? Then I have the I'm a father with a wife and teenagers and I have to protect them as much as possible. I don't know the answers and I am well past the delusion that I should.

In this case I have no problem with metal detectors. I mean you step through them when ever you enter or leave Walmart, it's just a statement on the state of technology. Do you realize that the average WalMart Has over 250 SECURITY CAMERAS, some over 300? It depends on store size and volume. I know I have been working on WalMarts all over the country installing them. When in a WalMart remember all of their camera domes are real. That's correct, not a fake one in the building.

Wow I wonder if Disney has thought of doing this. You're being watched by the BIG MOUSE!!

I also realize that the illusion of security can go a very long way. I do worry about giving up freedoms, I'm a dyed in the wool 70's radical (and I install security. There's something cosmology wrong there!) . I just don't have a good answer. It bothers me to no end that I know there are those that prey on our insecurities for their own good, power and control. Again I have no answers, just a very lot of questions and a bad feeling.

This where I come to get away from all this CRAP. What was the topic!!

Mousekedude · Post by **Mousekedude** » Nov Tue 03, 2009 4:56 pm

Jacca5660 wrote:
Wow I wonder if Disney has thought of doing this. You're being watched by the BIG MOUSE!!

I also realize that the illusion of security can go a very long way...

This where I come to get away from all this CRAP. What was the topic!!

THE BIG MOUSE! LOL!

You know, there's part of the answer right there: "the illusion of security..."
Added measures like that would serve a two-fold purpose: 1) We would naturally feel a little safer, and 2) the bad guys would be more intimidated into not trying anything, or better yet, not coming around at all. So we do gain something.

Oh, and.... ummm..... actually, this WAS the topic....

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Nov Tue 03, 2009 4:58 pm

Mousekedude wrote:
Jacca5660 wrote:
Wow I wonder if Disney has thought of doing this. You're being watched by the BIG MOUSE!!

I also realize that the illusion of security can go a very long way...

This where I come to get away from all this CRAP. What was the topic!!
THE BIG MOUSE! LOL!

You know, there's part of the answer right there: "the illusion of security..."
Added measures like that would serve a two-fold purpose: 1) We would naturally feel a little safer, and 2) the bad guys would be more intimidated into not trying anything, or better yet, not coming around at all. So we do gain something.

Oh, and.... ummm..... actually, this WAS the topic....

OY!! All off a sudden it's just like the rest of the world!! OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!

mindflipper · Post by **mindflipper** » Nov Wed 04, 2009 12:16 am

Actually, disney has a ton of video cameras, but they're very clever in making them very, very discrete. You would be surprised but they are watching more than you think...

Post by **Len90** » Nov Wed 04, 2009 2:38 pm

mindflipper wrote:Actually, disney has a ton of video cameras, but they're very clever in making them very, very discrete. You would be surprised but they are watching more than you think...

You are correct mindflipper. There are a couple thousand surveillance cameras that are cleverly hidden in DHS alone. The 4 most obvious ones are when you walk in and are at the top of Crossroads. Also, there are people who do try and watch over the cameras actively. So yeah, always smile when you are there since the big mouse is watching you.

mindflipper · Post by **mindflipper** » Nov Wed 04, 2009 2:53 pm

And its not just outside on the grounds and in the streets. The rides, the shops, the queues, the parking lot...

One time I locked my keys in my car while it was running by mistake in the parking lot of the Contemporary Hotel. By the time I hoofed up the front desk, they were already aware of my problem and knew my name (got it off my car's license plate). By the time I got back to my car, a truck was already there to pop the lock of my car for me. You couldn't beat the service, but it was eerie to think they could do all that from surveillance cameras in the parking lot.

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Nov Wed 04, 2009 3:10 pm

You'd be more surprised where they don't have any surveillance.

I know from experience, the biggest problem with having so many cameras is that they don't normally get watched closely. I mean if it's DOD or DOE, all the cameras get watched. When you're talking about corporate, no they don't watch very closely. What most corporation do is use the recordings in case something does happen. It's also the psychology behind it, if you think you action are being watch you are less likely to misbehave.

They are also there for one other thing, "Law suites" . It hard to win a case if you have a tape of what really happened.

kcarts · Post by **kcarts** » Nov Wed 04, 2009 3:57 pm

I for one fell safe going to Disney. I think we need to remember where this happened. At DTD. Where anyone can drive over and walk on in. No ticket needed. No admission fare needed. Even the old Pleasure Island is open to anyone. In the parks, I don't think this would happen. Even at any of the resorts although the chances are higher of it happening there than the parks.

It seems that more and more across the country the places we once felt were untouchable by the problems of the cities are being touched by those issues. One the cons of urban sprawl. I've seen it in my hometown. 40 miles south of Boston.

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Nov Sat 14, 2009 9:59 pm

I think the scary part is all these jackasses who think storing a weapon in your waistband is a good idea.

Peerless83 · Post by **Peerless83** » Nov Mon 16, 2009 10:07 pm

If there was ever a place to carry a loaded gun...it is definitely in Downtown Disney...its basically the drug and crime capital of the world...move over Detroit, Michigan...Lake Buena Vista is the new epicenter of violence in this country!!!

Post by **Len90** » Nov Mon 16, 2009 11:37 pm

Peerless83 wrote:If there was ever a place to carry a loaded gun...it is definitely in Downtown Disney...its basically the drug and crime capital of the world...move over Detroit, Michigan...Lake Buena Vista is the new epicenter of violence in this country!!!

I don't think it is at that level just yet. I did speak with a couple of sheriffs deputies while I was there and they didn't deny a problem there. However, they claimed that there is a lot of work in progress in trying to clean up the gangs and violence that goes on there. They also stated that the closing of Pleasure Island was a major part in reducing the violence. I did notice that once it gets towards midnight, the crowds at West Side are not the best and are FAR from what you expect in Disney. However, I will say that they are trying. There were A LOT of Disney security officers walking around and riding on bikes. Also, there were Sheriffs deputies walking around.