Horizons, Carousel of Progress, and Wonders of Life

[GhostHost]

I never saw Horizons but was told it was terrible, at best, not good. So I was told. As far as CoP, retire it already! While this ride is not terrible, does anyone even consider going on it anymore, unless you need a nap of course. And I agree w/whoever said bring WoL back into WoL! I agree too that Body Wars was weak, just an opportunity to get motion sickness, w/not much enjoyment for the trade off. But Cranium Command was terrific! They could do a lot w/an updated WoL pavillion! But Disney must be careful not to let it go South like Inoventions did. Hhhmmm, another topic for discussion?

Just spit on our grandmother's graves why don't you! Horizons was GREAT and COP is classic Disney, Walt specifically. I ALWAY ride COP because you never know when they might get rid of it in favor of some "flavor of the month" Pixar kiddie attraction or even worse, another character greet. The only thing I really agree with you on here is Cranium Command. I enjoyed that show and the WOL pavilion as a whole.

[Chernabog]

I never saw Horizons but was told it was terrible, at best, not good. So I was told. As far as CoP, retire it already! While this ride is not terrible, does anyone even consider going on it anymore, unless you need a nap of course. And I agree w/whoever said bring WoL back into WoL! I agree too that Body Wars was weak, just an opportunity to get motion sickness, w/not much enjoyment for the trade off. But Cranium Command was terrific! They could do a lot w/an updated WoL pavillion! But Disney must be careful not to let it go South like Inoventions did. Hhhmmm, another topic for discussion?

Just spit on our grandmother's graves why don't you! Horizons was GREAT and COP is classic Disney, Walt specifically. I ALWAY ride COP because you never know when they might get rid of it in favor of some "flavor of the month" Pixar kiddie attraction or even worse, another character greet. The only thing I really agree with you on here is Cranium Command. I enjoyed that show and the WOL pavilion as a whole.

I guess I was hard on CoP, but I have never made it thru w/o falling asleep. It was trememndous for it's time, no doubt. And please do not hold me acountable for the Horizons comment, it was not mine. And we all love your Grandmom!! BTW, GhostHost is a great name!

[GhostHost]

I never saw Horizons but was told it was terrible, at best, not good. So I was told. As far as CoP, retire it already! While this ride is not terrible, does anyone even consider going on it anymore, unless you need a nap of course. And I agree w/whoever said bring WoL back into WoL! I agree too that Body Wars was weak, just an opportunity to get motion sickness, w/not much enjoyment for the trade off. But Cranium Command was terrific! They could do a lot w/an updated WoL pavillion! But Disney must be careful not to let it go South like Inoventions did. Hhhmmm, another topic for discussion?

Just spit on our grandmother's graves why don't you! Horizons was GREAT and COP is classic Disney, Walt specifically. I ALWAY ride COP because you never know when they might get rid of it in favor of some "flavor of the month" Pixar kiddie attraction or even worse, another character greet. The only thing I really agree with you on here is Cranium Command. I enjoyed that show and the WOL pavilion as a whole.

I guess I was hard on CoP, but I have never made it thru w/o falling asleep. It was trememndous for it's time, no doubt. And please do not hold me acountable for the Horizons comment, it was not mine. And we all love your Grandmom!! BTW, GhostHost is a great name!

Hey, I'm kind of a sentimental about my Disney attractions but I know COP can be a sleeper for many folks but I love it! I think the thing I liked most about Horizons was that it gave you a choice of ending and it just felt larger than life unlike many of the current attractions. Yeah thanks! I was surprised nobody had snagged GhostHost when I signed up!

[DisBeamer]

I like to see them do something - something attraction related - with WoL, instead of just making it an indoor venue for things like Food and Wine and Flower and Garden. They have an indoor venue festering in World Showcase already; surely that's big enough to fit whatever they need for the festivals in it (I remember the Millennium Village being huge, anyway).

It'd be kind of cool if they decided to make it something like a 'new' Horizons. Honestly I'd be pleased to see them do anything E-tickety with it, preferably something with animatronics rather than screens. Heck they can throw some screens in if they really want, just give me some cool new-age fancy animatronics with it.

The more I read threads like this, the more I wonder why they blew Horizons out altogether. I mean, yeah, it needed severe updating, and possibly de-cheese-ing. That seems like it would have been fairly easy to do (not inexpensive, but not -difficult-). It was supposed to be a 'blue sky' vision of the future. There's no real accountability for having to make it 'plausible' there. They could have done whatever they wanted to with the future bit to make it, erm, futuristic again.

I know the upkeep costs on it were very high as well, but is the upkeep cost on M:S particularly low? Obviously it has fewer individual moving parts, but keeping those spinny things spinning seems like it'd be a chore (and there are probably much stricter safety regulations to take into consideration there, versus sedate Horizons). Or on some of the new things they've built. Upkeep on EE must be pretty high. And Test Track. Actually thinking about it some more... screen-things would theoretically be easier to take care of than animatronics; that probably explains the increase in the use of them (Nemo, M:S, the new ending of SE, etc etc). Seems like with all that theoretical budget trimming there'd be room for another big animatronic-laden E-ticket in Future World.

I think I'm just concluding I'll never really get why they knocked it down rather than updating it...

[Captain Schnemo]

There was a lot of talk about the building becoming structurally unsound, perhaps due to sinkholes. I don't know that this was ever confirmed, and I don't think a sinkhole can be repaired successfully enough that you'd want to put something as expensive as M:S on top of it. But I dunno.

My thoughts on the maintenance issue is that thrill ride maintenance is a longstanding service industry and even though it might be time and work intensive, it doesn't take a lot of specialized knowledge. Keeping Horizons working involved all the animatronics and a whole bunch of other effects of all types. Many different types of things needed to be cleaned, replaced, maintained, etc. and many of those were very specialized devices and tasks.

All very difficult to outsource.

There's also the issue of the creativity and imagination (in short, thinking) necessary to update something like Horizons, and I just don't believe that they have that any more.

[Cheshire Cat]

While I'd love to see something like a new Horizons built in the WoL pavilion, the look of the pavilion itself never really "wowed" me enough for me to think of it housing anything spectacular. It sure wasn't a glass pyramid or geodesic sphere. I really miss the Horizons building almost as much as I miss the ride that was withing it. It looked like a "futureport" from all around the park except when you looked at it from directly in front. When looked at from directly in front it simply looked like it was stretching out into the horizon. It was a piece of "Blue Sky" architecture .

[HakuOni]

i love figment, idont know why you guys oppose him soo much. he is only there to help adults and children cultivate what most people loose at the age of 10.

imagination!

[DisBeamer]

There was a lot of talk about the building becoming structurally unsound, perhaps due to sinkholes. I don't know that this was ever confirmed, and I don't think a sinkhole can be repaired successfully enough that you'd want to put something as expensive as M:S on top of it. But I dunno.

Hmm. I never heard that myself, though I do remember peeking over the wall they had around the corpse of Horizons and surrounding ground and it didn't look too sinky. Which is not to say it's not there, though I suspect you're right; if the ground was in danger of giving way they probably wouldn't have chucked M:S up on top of it. There's gotta be some kind of vibration transmitted to the ground from the centrifuge thingers that'd be bad for sinkholes.

My thoughts on the maintenance issue is that thrill ride maintenance is a longstanding service industry and even though it might be time and work intensive, it doesn't take a lot of specialized knowledge. Keeping Horizons working involved all the animatronics and a whole bunch of other effects of all types. Many different types of things needed to be cleaned, replaced, maintained, etc. and many of those were very specialized devices and tasks.

All very difficult to outsource.

You'd think they'd have those people already though. I mean I understand Disney enjoys outsourcing things but they still have rides with AAs in them. I know Horizons had a lot of 'em, but so does PotC (I'd guess the numbers in the two rides are roughly equal, if memory serves). That's what I've always found odd about the maintenance was too expensive reasoning. Those people must already work there... somewhere. Perplexing.

There's also the issue of the creativity and imagination (in short, thinking) necessary to update something like Horizons, and I just don't believe that they have that any more.

Yeah... this one sounds like the winning candidate to me. Seems like all roads lead here.

While I'd love to see something like a new Horizons built in the WoL pavilion, the look of the pavilion itself never really "wowed" me enough for me to think of it housing anything spectacular.

Aww. That big DNA sculpture's kinda cool. This'll probably lose me DisneyGeekPoints(TM), but I really don't remember the Horizons building exterior. I remember the queue well, though. Mmmmoranges. (And I remember one of the last times I rode, the queue was empty except for me and my mom, and a kid and his parents. The kid saw the 'If you can dream it, you can do it' sign and loudly proclaimed that it wasn't true because he dreamed he could fly and he couldn't, and his parents said something about the sign being stupid, and I asked if they'd come to Florida on a plane, and they looked offended... then my mom got annoyed with me. Memoriiiiies. *sniff*)

[casrin]

There was a lot of talk about the building becoming structurally unsound, perhaps due to sinkholes. I don't know that this was ever confirmed, and I don't think a sinkhole can be repaired successfully enough that you'd want to put something as expensive as M:S on top of it. But I dunno.

Heh, that's what I wondered about too.

But, I'd also read (link's at home if I need to find it) that there were structural problems with the building in general. Roofing troubles that, for all the repairs, weren't staying fixed. Stuff like that.

[Cheshire Cat]

Aww. That big DNA sculpture's kinda cool.

Oh no, the DNA structure was cool. It's just that the golden dome seemed a little boring. Domes aren't all that rare in architecture. I think it was supposed to resemble a cell or something. I just think all of epcot's other pavilions have a more unique design to them. Now I realize most of the pavilions were designed with simple geometric shapes (with the exception of the Living Seas, because water doesn't have a shape), I just can't put my finger on why I didn't like the dome. Maybe it also had something to do with the placement hidden on the hill. Maybe if it were on normal ground level and the entire dome was visible at once, then it would be more stunning.

That's another thing that really bothered me when they built Mission:Space. It looks amazing, but it's just so gaudy compared to the other pavilions. Really, all it is, is a facade too. While on most of the other pavilions, what you see on the outside is the building itself, Mission:Space just has a cool looking facade which covers the boring grey building behind it (They don't even try to cover this up on the park maps). When you saw Horizons, that wasn't just a flashy facade you were looking at, that was the actual building, whose architecture continued around the back. They didn't just make the front look cool and use a grey building behind it.

[Captain Schnemo]

I mean I understand Disney enjoys outsourcing things but they still have rides with AAs in them.

My belief is that if Disney had their way, they'd close all their AA attractions. They haven't built a new one in ages (except to highlight one or just a few highly-developed machines...this is again easier to maintain and reflective of their current "we'll only give you one trick" mentality) and they have been sacking and stripping down the old ones with a vengeance.

That's what I've always found odd about the maintenance was too expensive reasoning. Those people must already work there... somewhere.

Well, there can't be too many people around who have actually built AAs. I know maintaining them isn't quite the same thing, but I sure wouldn't want to be in charge of complex ride maintenance at Disney. Well, actually, I would love that job, but I don't think it would be a secure one.

That big DNA sculpture's kinda cool.

I loved the way it rose out of the primordial soup. I've always respected Walt's anti-Creationist streak and I thought that was a fitting symbol.

I think the gold dome was cool, but sort of difficult to see from the outside and not all that interesting on the inside.

Cheshire makes a really interesting point about the Mission:Space building. I'd never thought of it in the context of the architecture of Future World because the facade is very pretty, but I knew it didn't feel right somehow.

Chesire, you the nail on the head. The facade is cool, but the building is hidden and boring. There's nothing iconic about the structure itself. It's more like a Fantasyland ride than a classic Future World structure.

Hmph. Great call.