Your an Imagineer in charge of adding a New Country to Epcot

[Jacca5660]

We had a tread like this before.

Here is what I thought in an earlier post:

"After reading through all the ideas here. I've come up with some conclusions and ideas of my own. When thinking of adding a new country to world showcase, I have a short list of criteria for what would make an acceptable country.

1: It would have to be a country that likes us (I mean the US)
2: It would have to be politically stable
3: The socio/economic situation would have to have a minimal impact (A lot of jobs are being shipped overseas and causing resentment here).
4: It would have to actually be a country and not just a territory.
5: It would have to be economically viable (It would be hard to show a third world country in a good light)
6: It would have to be safe. (there are countries out there that would be lightning rods for terrorist attack.)
7: We as Americans would have to have an over all favorable opinion of said country. (It would be a hard sell if Americans didn't like a country over all.)

That stated, let's look at what's been mentioned here. Antarctica and South America are continents, not countries. I would dare to say with all the people here from various South American countries, you would get a lot of people upset with a continent-wide pavilion. Antarctica is a continent also, and has no culture or population of it's own. Right now, if you keep up with current events, it's becoming very disputed. There are varying countries trying to stake claims to very large areas of the continent and surrounding waters for mineral and oil rights. It was set up as a non territorial free zone. That's not working out too well. So, I have rejected these two out of hand.

Next, political stability. I'd have to reject India, Ethiopia, Thailand, Zimbabwe, Russia, and except for a couple of countries, South America. Most of these countries are fighting ongoing wars (mostly civil). Yes, I know we are fighting on several fronts. Russia is fighting a couple of the old USSR territories. Ethiopia and Zimbabwe have internal conflicts. India is constantly at odds with most of it's neighbors, and it seems about once every couple of years it threatens to bomb Pakistan (I remember it's even threatened to NUKE them). Thailand, which used to be the most stable country in Southeast Asia is, well, let's just say their conflicts are internal and on their boarders. From what I've read, their boarders move..A LOT.
As for Socio/Economic situation. There is a lot of resentment for India in this country. I'm a technician and know technicians. There are a lot of people who get very upset that our jobs are being sent to India. It may not be of India's doing, American companies have gone to India and told them what they needed to do and what training they needed to give their people so our jobs could be sent there. I just don't feel there would be a real good reception for an Indian pavilion. I feel /think you might also have the same problem with a few different South American and Southeast Asian countries. These are starting to become hard economic times for certain sectors of our population and that would have to come into consideration when choosing a new country pavilion.

I would have to also say that some countries, either perceived or real, are thought of as third world countries. India, Ethiopia, Puerto Rico, Zimbabwe, Thailand, Argentina, and Chile are thought of by a lot of Americans as third world countries. I didn't say they were. I just said they were perceived as such. Yes, I did put Puerto Rico on this list. I've been to PR and once out of the tourist areas, living conditions are ghastly. In some areas, running water is thought of as a luxury. I don't think I have to explain too much on how I put India, Ethiopia, Zimbabwe, and Thailand on this list. The vast majority of the people in these countries are still living in the 18th century. Yes, I know they have some very modern big cities. All you have to do is get on the outskirts of them and you go back a couple of centuries or worse. Personally, I don't think of Argentina and Chile as third world countries. I am talking about over-all perception not mine.

Yes, they would have to be safe. I feel Israel would be a lightning rod for attack. Yes, I know Israel is one of our staunchest allies, politically and economically stable. If you look at our world today..well I feel you can get the Idea. On this subject, I'm not too sure if I would add Egypt here. I would not have any problem taking my family there. You don't hear about many attacks in Egypt. They most likely have the strongest standing army on the planet. They are also (internally) very tightly controlled. I would only question how much protection their pavilion would need. I feel that if you have to talk security risk, it most likely would not be a good Idea to add a pavilion to the EPCOT world showcase.

As to addressing if they like the US. Now lets face it, we do not get high marks around the world when it comes as to how people perceive us. So I feel a major factor would have to be "How do they feel about the US". To this end India, Russia, Argentina, Chile, Zimbabwe, and Ethiopia all get low marks. Don't get me wrong, they love our money and jobs, but I don't think they feel warm and fuzzy when they think about the US. For that matter I'm not really sure how the people of Egypt perceive us.

Now who does that leave? By the way, I've just compiled this list of countries from what people have suggested on this string. Australia, Greece, Brazil, New Zealand, Spain, Switzerland, Ireland, Holland (Amsterdam is a city in Holland!), and South Africa. All meet my stated requirements. I wouldn't put Ireland on my personal list because we already have one called Great Britain. That is inclusive of Ireland, England, Wales, and Scotland. I feel any of the others that are left would be great additions to the world Showcase. It would be very hard to choose which one. My personal favorites would be Australia (You could do this one with New Zealand), South Africa, Brazil, and Holland (As was stated in an earlier post. I would want one or two of their laws at the pavilion).

This is all just my opinion and I could be wrong. With that said I do expect several of you to take this apart and rip it up. You know who you are!"

I believe this still stands up!

[Len90]

Good points Jacca. I like your thinking on this. The only thing I have to doubt is the risk for terrorist attack. England has been attacked multiple times and there has been no problems with the pavilion over at Epcot. Secondly, I doubt that terrorists would want to attack because of a certain pavilion in the World Showcase.... but you never know.

Among your finalized list, I see a lot of great additions, but along with their pros, I see a con for each of them. I guess this is why Disney has done nothing.

[Future Guy]

It would be nice to see South America represented; a Brazillian pavilion would make a nice addition, although some guests might misunderstand what a "Brazillian pavilion" is.

Given the huge influence of Greek culture on the Western world, though, I'd have to give the nod to Greece. Of course, Disney would never spend their own money to construct such a pavilion; they'd want a sponsorship deal with the country in question. Disney's money is much too valuable to be spent on such things; they need it for more important projects, like direct-to-DVD Tinkerbell movies and new episodes of "The Suite Life of Zack and Cody".

[Mr.ToadWildRider]

Just to counter some of your arguments Jacca, which I do feel were well thought out, but perhaps not reflective of what is currently in the WS.

Russia: Has been an enemy yes, and Communist, yes, and has been hostile with us in the past. We've never actually engaged in open warfare with Russia though, unlike Italy, France (sort of), Japan, Germany, England/Great Britain, and Mexico. China is still Communist and has had as much threat to the USA in the Cold War as Russia (I seem to recall the Chinese playing roles in Korea and to a lesser extent Vietnam).

India: The US loses jobs to India. The US is also losing jobs to Mexico, Japan, and Ireland (which makes your list as being acceptable other than being already represented in the WS in the form of GB, and yes they are booming by taking tech jobs away from the US, several companies have uprooted the US east coast for Dublin and now Dublin is buying up tech companies here) among others. This shouldn't be a disqualifying mark. Part of that problem is simply labor unions have grown overly powerful and demand far too much. You can't blame the countries for taking jobs if they're willing to do it for less, that's capitalism. Furthermore, they're listed as politically unstable because they have a horrid relationship w/ Pakistan and have threatened to nuke them but as you point out the U.S. is involved in many bitter disputes and actual wars and I seem to recall (although never an official statement issued by the US) a lot of talk about use of nuclear weapons post-911. India lives in poverty but so too does China. India is listed as not liking the US, but I'd argue that nations such as France and China, already WS reps, have a stronger dislike of the US than India does by leaps and bounds.

I think that Brazil would be a great addition to WS, given it's cuisine (churrasco anyone?) and to represent South America, and to inject a little Portuguese-based culture to the WS in addition to maybe an Amazon themed boat ride. That said, even with its diverse culture and picturesque landscape, it hasn't had a thoroughly rich history. Not disqualifying but a negative mark. Russia and India both have much richer histories however than Brazil and Australia. I also imagine their cultures are more defined than South Africa and Holland. For those reasons I would not disqualify India or Russia. I just think it's hard to disqualify countries based on factors which if applied would result in virtually the entire WS being evicted w/ perhaps the exception of Norway.

With all that being said I think a great candidate for the WS would be Greece. One of the oldest civilizations in the world, rich history and culture, cuisine, no controversy, beautiful scenery. Design the main building to look like the Acropolis from the outside. Maybe even a mythological based attraction, even something similar to Maelstrom - old school myth and lore evolves to present day. Just a thought.

EDIT: I actually was typing this as Future Guy posted, it's kind of ironic we both came to similar conclusions

[figment]

Egypt?

[Mr.ToadWildRider]

Egypt is good too, although one might argue that many of the cultural customs and cuisines of Egypt closely resemble Morocco. I'm not saying they're the same! Morocco generally has more French infuence than modern Egypt. As I believe someone mentioned maybe if there ever came an appropriate time Egypt would be a great candidate to replace Morocco.

[Gymfan15]

I say Greece for the food. You could also manage a good ride there...the WS is lacking in the ride department, I think. Something that has to do with Ancient Greece; maybe the Olympics! You could ride in and out of various landmarks. Now that would be cool!

[Len90]

Greece does make sense. There is a ton of ancient history around Greece and it would be a great educational adventure to have an attraction to go through the ancient landmarks. I would rank Greece ahead of Egypt.

Now all that is left is which location in the park would you choose?

[Jacca5660]

Greece does make sense. There is a ton of ancient history around Greece and it would be a great educational adventure to have an attraction to go through the ancient landmarks. I would rank Greece ahead of Egypt.

Now all that is left is which location in the park would you choose?

There is a ton of room behind the existing countries. I don't think Disney would have any problems. Only one problem I can think of, What country is going to want to be a second tier country.

[Len90]

Greece does make sense. There is a ton of ancient history around Greece and it would be a great educational adventure to have an attraction to go through the ancient landmarks. I would rank Greece ahead of Egypt.

Now all that is left is which location in the park would you choose?

There is a ton of room behind the existing countries. I don't think Disney would have any problems. Only one problem I can think of, What country is going to want to be a second tier country.

Exactly what I was trying to figure out. There might be some room in between morocco and france, but it would require it to be set back.

[DIAC1987]

Since my other thread is about to be locked thanks to this one...might as well copy and paste my personal choices

1) Brazil: I personally have a weakness for their women, so that's a start. Second off, its a massive country full of history, full of wonderful nature, and culture. Then add the fact that we have no South American country in Epcot to begin with. Brazil would be a perfect choice to be a country represented in Epcot.

2) Australia: Besides the stereotypes and Irwin, just how much do we know about this country/continent?

3) Russia (Rumor has it Russia and Disney are indeed in talks)

4) Greece

5) The Islands of the Caribbean (Jamaica, Hispaniola, Puerto Rico, Bahamas)

6) Argentina

7) India

8) Antarctica (Just..kidding...)

[Mr.ToadWildRider]

Greece does make sense. There is a ton of ancient history around Greece and it would be a great educational adventure to have an attraction to go through the ancient landmarks. I would rank Greece ahead of Egypt.

Now all that is left is which location in the park would you choose?

There is a ton of room behind the existing countries. I don't think Disney would have any problems. Only one problem I can think of, What country is going to want to be a second tier country.

Exactly what I was trying to figure out. There might be some room in between morocco and france, but it would require it to be set back.

Why not get rid of the outpost? There's clearly enough space there, it was designed to be "Equatorial Africa pavillion" but when that fell through they added the outpost to eliminate a rather sizable gap in scenary and theme along the WS promenade.

[TheGreatGonzo]

The Outpost - Isn't that where Russia belongs - between Germany and China. At least thats close to where it is on the globe.

[Jacca5660]

The Outpost - Isn't that where Russia belongs - between Germany and China. At least thats close to where it is on the globe.

That also sounds like an historic perspective.

[packwingfn]

They really couldn't put much behind the Outpost because behind the Outpost is more water as thats where the fireworks and earth globe are stored for Illuminations