Disney's biggest blunder?

[maleficent]

new poster coming out of lurkdom!

the redo of Journey into Imagination gets my vote! I loved that ride as a kid and the first remake was sooo bad that they had to turn around and put Figment back in the ride. Its better but its still no where near as good as the original. Maybe one day soon they will realize that.

[Ketira]

...
Seriously, this is Disney. They dropped a billion on a theme park in the '80s. If moving some office cubes is beyond their capability, it's time for them to shut down and put up a strip mall where the MK used to be.

Designers are bound by what the park limits are.

That's not so much of a factor at the MK. Look at an aerial photo. Besides, Imagineers are clever lads. If they can't build down, they can build up.

It's certainly no more difficult than half the stuff they've done at the parks.

I don't think you get it. Part of all that space is a natural preserve --a part of the site that will never be touched, according to Walt's plan for the Park. Ever figure that into your plans? After all, Florida is an ecologically unique state as we are Sub-Tropical. There are many trees and animals that live here that live no where else in the world.

And what about the building codes? You have to conform to them, so you have to think about how to build something that is basically hurricane-proof or at least can stand up to 100 mph winds. Walt was a genius when he built WDW along those lines, knowing that hurricanes were a possibility. And he was right: Katrina may not have come near WDW, but earlier that year, Hurricane Charlie did.

You're not a Floridian, are you? I am....

[spaulo]

What's Disney's biggest blunder at WDW?

According to Al Lutz, there's a ton of stuff to point to.

I like reading Al's insights into the Disneyland Resort every few weeks, and he recently went to WDW. Watch out, fanboys and fangirls... he kinda lays in to the Orlando property.

Check it out.

[Dr. Ravenscroft]

After reading that I have to agree with almost all of it. and I have to add that I found out that most of the speakers in WDW are original, meaning many in MK haven't been replaced or upgraded in 35 years, and in EPCOT 24 years. That is too long for a speakers life.

[Mr.ToadWildRider]

Well it's mostly all been said but in no particular order

Closure of Wonders of Life

Mr. Toad -> Pooh...obviously.

Tropical Serenade -> New Management

Horizons -> Mission:Space, and I'm sorry it's not really even that fun of a ride. Other than Gary Sinise giving a good intro and the initial take off it's sort of a waste imo.

WoM -> Test Track...sort of. WoM was my fave EPCOT ride as a kid,along with Rio Del Tiempo and Journey Into Imagination, although I admit EPCOT needed a little bit of thrill and it's what the sponsor wanted so I can't really blame Disney. Test Track is really fun too and it's a longer ride, it's just it doesn't entirely feel all that ...well fun...it's hard to explain. Fun ride but boring atmosphere I guess?

JII -> JIYI -> Whatever it is now. There's no plausible reason for this change other than to "Freshen it up," but geez they let things like Tomorrowland Raceway live on gobbling up massive amounts of prime real estate but kill a really fun and creative ride to get another cameo by Eric Idle to go along with the now outdated HISTA movie.

The wand.

The hat.

20,000 Leagues -> vacant space for years -> Pooh playground.

Alien Encounter -> Stitch (Although even then I think people have made this a bigger deal than it was...AE was fun but it was a) not classic and b) not all that incredible to begin with)

Failing to develop MGM better after RnRC was added.

Failing to develop AK...period. And okay, it got Primevil Whirl and E:E but it's still a 1/3 a day park + a zoo for full gate price imo.

Letting a lot of great ideas die on the drawing boards, i.e. Thunder Mesa, Mt. Fuji, Africa Pavilion, Fire Mountain/Villain Mountain, etc.

Changing Sea Base Alpha to Nemo's Barrier Reef...I think...although who knows...

Going on the same idea as the last one - Pixar/Character-ification of all parks but in particular Epcot. When the characters went to Epcot it was on vacation...now they're permanent residents...and the need to add a movie character to seemingly every land and park seems a little over the top.

Not building an Indiana Jones ride at WDW.

Changing the Askershus menu and making it character dining...it's still good but not as good.

Not upkeeping classics like JC and HM as they should...when entire segments of audio are missing with a low murmur that is supposed to be narration but instead is a recorder hum someone should be fixing that immediately (that was on HM) and the figures on JC are in serious need of a paint job etc it's sad.

Tropical AL -> Aladdin's Agrabbah inexplicably in the middle of a jungle.

[Mr.ToadWildRider]

In regard to the space crisis in Fantasyland argument there are 2 very easy solutions

1) Expand into Hundred Acre Woods playground

2) Expand Fantasy land down the walkway between Tomorrowland and Fantasyland by consuming that massive land being used by the Tomorrowland raceway. I'm sorry if people see it as classic, but a classic like that I just see as old and outdated. It's go-karts on a track, and between the various lawsuits of whiplash generated by it, the gasoline being used by all those cars, and the number of CMs needed to operate it (it seems like a substantial amount anyway from the lineworkers to people observing the tracks etc) I don't think they'd be missing much when they could easily put in 2 Fantasyland dark rides on that land. The only problem is that the Tomorrowland Terrace...or whatever that place is called with Sonny Eclipse is called, is directly across from it which may create theming issues. Could always turn it into a fantasy based restaurant and change Sonny Eclipse into a Princess or something, I'm sure Disney would love the opportunity to throw another Disney character in another dining establishment.

[Captain Schnemo]

So where would the cast members get into the park, then? There's no other place where it would be possible to build an access point to the utilidor because every other place has been covered up.

All they need to do is provide a facade within the park. No one needs to see where the queue leads, so they don't have to completely block the Utilidor entrance. The parking spaces can easily be moved.

I really don't see how a company like Disney could be incapable of moving some space around. You don't need much for a Fantasyland dark ride.

I think maybe you have to actually go around the Magic Kingdom and see how back stage is constructed to understand.

Seen it.

As for Ketira's comments...not sure how any of them were relevant.

The "natural park" business is a non-sequitur, as is pretending that WDW is anything like what Walt wanted. I don't even know where you're going with the hurricane thing. Cinderblocks are not a radical technology and don't have anything to do with the subject in any case.

No idea what Florida's ecology has to do with this either. I think if you look at the Everglades, you'll see what Floridians actually think of our precious ecology.

[MansionButler]

As far as having seen it, how much have you seen? The entire utilidor? The enterance? What? If you were to build behind Fantasyland, you would be closing off the only enterence to the back stage area.

I'm sure Disney can do whatever they want, but this would be a MASSIVE operation just to put in a ride on the scale of Mr. Toad. Is taht really feasible?

I'm sorry, it really doesn't seem like it to me. It's the kind of thing I would have said back in my AP days, but I learned alot during my college program about what they can and can't do with the park space around them. They can, technically, do anything they want, but you have to determine what makes sense. In this case, even an E-Ticket would likely be asking too much. A simple dark ride is out of the question.

[fecns]

The old journey into imagination was way better than the last two they did, now they have figment way too much. Liked World of Motion better than the test track And Stich isn't as good as the Alien Encounter

[kronk's angel]

spaulo, great link. A thoughtful assessment of the current/former state of affairs. Very interesting. Thanks.

[Blackie Pueblo]

MrToadWildRider that was a very professional thought out list. Very good. You make a lot of good points that some people haven't stated yet. I agree with your thoughts!!

Oh and Malificent... welcome! Glad you quit lurking and joined the family!

Imagination is more imporant than knowledge
--A. Einstein

[Captain Schnemo]

I'm sure Disney can do whatever they want, but this would be a MASSIVE operation just to put in a ride on the scale of Mr. Toad. Is taht really feasible?

No, as I said, there are a number of more reasonable options if they wanted to add a new dark ride, all of which Disney is demonstrably capable of, because they've done similar things before.

But while they wouldn't do something like this for a small time dark ride, I have no doubt these sort of changes would be on the table for an E-ticket, if it were important enough to them.

I could easily agree that in this cheap-ass mode they've been in for years that they wouldn't do it, but to say that they couldn't is just silly. That's all I'm saying.

[subsonic]

I agree, Disney has the power to make magic happen. But the magic costs money. They are too short term these days, erm years. They fail to realize that putting in more money now will come back tenfold. Cutting corners works on short term but it's now biting them in the butt.

[soccermouse]

Speaking of the Tomorrowland Autopia-type ride at WDW

I don't think they'd be missing much

They would be missed much - we have not been on the ones at WDW, but our trip to Disneyland was not the same without them. Granted I have kids ages 15, 13, 10 & 8, but they would be missed

[Mr.ToadWildRider]

MrToadWildRider that was a very professional thought out list. Very good. You make a lot of good points that some people haven't stated yet. I agree with your thoughts!!

Thank you! Although I don't know about professional...although analyzing Disney as a profession would be great!

Speaking of the Tomorrowland Autopia-type ride at WDW Mr.ToadWildRider wrote:
I don't think they'd be missing much


They would be missed much - we have not been on the ones at WDW, but our trip to Disneyland was not the same without them. Granted I have kids ages 15, 13, 10 & 8, but they would be missed

I understand there are those who love the speed/raceway for their own reasons and I respect that. I'm sure things I enjoy, like Hall of Presidents for example, other people would skip without batting an eye. It's just I feel like the Raceway, although extremely classic, doesn't really feel Disney to me. It's basically a standard fare car ride that you can find at any local amusement park. I understand the safety rail is to enable younger kids to drive, but it's essentially go-karts, which there are literally dozens of scattered around the Orlando/Kissimee area. Plus, the thing has been the basis for a number of lawsuits over the years, and although none of them won, getting sued for whiplash is something I'd tend to want to avoid as a company because regardless of what safety features there are, how many observers there are, and/or the parent in the seat next to a kid (or the parent themselves...) people get rear-end often and those cars aren't exactly designed for impact. The have the bumpers, sure, but even a slow moving veh from behind while stopped causes an issue. The other thing about it is when you put the progress of the entire ride system in the hands (or should I say feet) of riders, especially young riders, all it takes is for someone to take their foot off the gas and the entire ride gets delayed. I imagine this is why the lines are often so long...I'd be interested in seeing how many people actually go through the turnstyle in a day and compare it to other rides that standardly have 30-45+ min wait times.

It's also my understanding that Autopia is much nicer than Tomorrowland Raceway, although I cannot attest to that as the last time I was in DL I did not ride them, and the time before that I was so young I don't even remember being there.

I just think instead of getting rid of fun, great, DISNEY originals, like 20,000 Leagues and Mr. Toad to make room, while something ancient and standard amusent park fare like the Raceway goes unscathed is sad. Now, I realize changing Mr. Toad to Pooh is a lot cheaper than removing the Raceway and then developing the land and that 20k has other (although often dubious) reasons for being removed/replaced, but it still hurts. I can go to 2 crappy no-name amusent parks in New England with an hour drive of Boston that I can ride something which is essentially the same as the Raceway and that's just not what I want when I take a 3 hour plane ride and drop 3x as much on a ticket; I'd stay home if that were the case.