Disney gets on board with fast-train proposal

ericpabear · Post by **ericpabear** » Oct Sat 03, 2009 2:04 pm

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business ... 0794.story

Disney gets on board with fast-train proposal
Walt Disney World offers up to 50 acres for station, backs Orange convention-center stop

By Dan Tracy
Sentinel Staff Writer
October 2, 2009

Florida has received a last-minute boost from Walt Disney World in its bid for $2.5 billion of federal money to build a high-speed train linking Orlando and Tampa.
Disney says it will support a stop at the Orange County Convention Center, as well as provide up to 50acres of free land for a station. For years, Disney wanted any train that might be built to take a straight shot from Orlando International Airport to its parks, with no other stations.
"While many details are still yet to be worked out, we think this project makes sense for our community," Walt Disney World President Meg Crofton wrote in a letter to the state earlier this week.
Disney's backing is important because it could provide millions of riders to the system, helping to underwrite operation costs for the entire 90-mile route.
There will be intense and widespread competition for the $8 billion set aside by the Obama administration and Congress for creating mass-transit systems featuring trains capable of going at least 110 mph. Today, Florida is electronically transmitting its final application to Washington. Nearly 280 pre-applications, from Los Angeles to Boston and many places in between, were submitted earlier this summer, for a total of $102billion in proposals.
No timetable has been set for announcing the winners, but it's clear that most of the requests will not be filled.
'Very good' odds
Florida proponents, however, are upbeat about the state's chances.
Ed Turanchik, a developer and former Hillsborough County commissioner, called Florida's odds "very good." He runs ConnectUs, a nonprofit formed three months ago with $50,000 donated by a variety of businesses and individuals to promote Florida's high-speed-rail bid.
He maintains the state's decades-long pursuit of a fast train should place Florida at or near the top of the list for those making the decisions at the federal Department of Transportation.
Thanks largely to the work of a defunct high-speed-rail authority, the state has chosen an alignment and completed an environmental-impact study that recently was updated. Florida could start construction within 14 months, with operations beginning late in 2014. Few, if any, of Florida's rivals can make that claim.
"I really think we have the best project in the country. We have all the ingredients," said Nazih Haddad, who oversees the state's proposal for the Florida Department of Transportation.
C.C. "Doc" Dockery, the retired Lakeland insurance magnate who has long worked to bring a fast train to Florida, said Disney's decision to get on board is "big. It really is."
Disney's marketing abilities, he said, "will showcase the first high-speed rail in the U.S. in a way it could never be anywhere else.... What a marvelous opportunity for the Obama administration."
Disney spokeswoman Zoraya Suarez said Disney backs the current plan because it could complement the planned SunRail commuter train that would run from DeLand to Poinciana.
"Our primary concern," Suarez said in an e mail to the Orlando Sentinel, "has always been ensuring that high-speed rail does not prevent our community from building an effective commuter rail system in the future. The proposed route for SunRail would not be impacted by the high-speed rail route that has been selected."
Suarez said Disney would continue offering its Magical Express bus service that takes visitors directly from the airport to hotels on its property. The train, she said, would provide another option.
Crofton's letter did not specify where the station would be located, only that it would be "at or near" the resort. Crofton valued the land at $25 million.
Haddad said the state already owns more than 90 percent of the land needed for the tracks. The property â€” a 44-foot-wide swath largely down the middle of Interstate 4 â€” is worth $1 billion, he said.
The terrain, Haddad points out, is flat, which lends itself to speed. And I-4 hosts hundreds of thousands of motorists who daily traipse among Orlando, Lakeland and Tampa â€” and many of those travelers could be potential passengers.
Stops are planned for Orlando International Airport, the Orange County Convention Center, Walt Disney World near Celebration, Lakeland and the old Morgan Street Jail in downtown Tampa.
Hour's ride each way
One-way fares could be $20, according to ConnectUs. Travel time, including stops, would be about an hour.
Ten corridors were approved in 1991 by the government as eligible for high-speed funding, though there was no money at the time. The Orlando-Tampa route is among that group. Other areas seeking money include Los Angeles to San Francisco, a Midwest hub with Chicago at the center and Washington to New York City.
U.S. DOT spokesman Rob Kulat said agency officials realize there is not enough money to go around, nor enough to fully fund any single venture. This is the beginning, he said, of what could be a 30-year undertaking to enhance rail transit throughout the country.
Florida also is awaiting word on applications it made in August for $270 million to buy the tracks for the planned SunRail commuter train and $30 million to study a high-speed route between Orlando and Miami.
"We're at the point," Kulat said, "of having to sort carefully and going through it."

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Oct Sun 04, 2009 12:32 pm

I live in Chattanooga are we are trying to get the train between here and Atlanta. A lot of the reason for this is so Chattanooga's airport can take some presume off of Atlanta's airport. I don't think Orlando's reason is as good and just having a train like this to get people to WDW from Tampa is a waste of money in MHO.

Post by **Len90** » Oct Sun 04, 2009 9:16 pm

Jacca, I don't know if this is for just Disney. I think it really is meant to get a link up to the Convention Center nearby. Of course Disney will find a way to benefit off of this, but I really like the idea. From what I get, it will also link to MCO. Seems like a good idea to me, However, the Chattanooga train is also interesting. I really think anything that can take some of the traffic off of Atlanta would be a plus.

agingerbugg · Post by **agingerbugg** » Oct Mon 05, 2009 8:11 am

High speed rail has been a long debate in Florida. The Tampa to Orlando segment has always been part of the plan. In fact, Florida voters passed a referendum in 2000 to build the line, but the legislature beat it down. IF this segment is built it is the first step to completing the entire project. I look forward to it, and hope that it is completed.

Oh and the WDW station was talked about in 2000 as well, not (on the surface anyway) as a way to boost Disney profits, but to increase tourism in Florida. It would allow out-of-state tourists visiting family in Miami to take a day trip to Orlando instead of staying in Miami and enjoying the free beaches.

Mr.ToadWildRider · Post by **Mr.ToadWildRider** » Oct Mon 05, 2009 11:09 am

I'm skeptical about "fast train" proposals that start to incorporate too many stops. I can't really decipher from this article with a skim how many stops there'd be but I gather at least one at the convention center, one at MCO (?), one in Tampa, and perhaps one near Celebration?

First, I'm not really sure I get why they'd put stops at both MCO and the Convention Center since they're both in Orlando. That's more of a concern for a light rail system, not a 110 mph+ bullet train.

From Orlando to Tampa is what? Like an hour and a half? From Tampa to Kissimmee/Celebration an hour/40 minutes? From MCO to Celebration area ~ 30 minutes?

This proposal suggests that from end to end it will be an hour long trip. So for $20 you save ~ 30 minutes? That seems a bit absurd to me.

When you're talking about trains, stops absolutely kill the net gain from higher speeds, lack of traffic. If the feds are giving out $8 billion, it should be really connecting only truly far distances. I'm talking like a rail on the East Coast from Boston -> New York -> DC -> Charleotte -> Atlanta -> Miami or something. Obviously that's a bit grander in scale than what they might be looking for but you really need to space out these stops to take advantage of the speed/lack of traffic.

The problem I have with trains are that we have some of these trains i.e. the Accela that connects DC/Boston/NYC, but it costs as much as a plane ride for a trip that's 3x longer. Trains could become such a powerful industry again with the institution of these magnetized bullet trains if they can lower the cost to be competitive with airlines. But it still goes back to these states wanting high speed trains to travel a relatively short distance- it seems like this propsal nets you maybe 30 minutes from end to end. That's pretty lame when you're talking 110 mph traffic free.

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Oct Mon 05, 2009 11:51 am

The Chattanooga to Atlanta would save you about 45 minutes in travel time. I think the whole thing with this rout is about the connection between the airports.

agingerbugg · Post by **agingerbugg** » Oct Tue 06, 2009 8:50 am

After looking into it, this plan is not very well thought out. Five stops on an 85 mile line does not sound like a time saving route. Perhaps if Orlando builds a transportation hub, where high-speed, light rail, bus, etc. all converge would be a better use of money than building two extra stations less than ten miles apart.

Maybe something along the lines of Walt's original dream for Progress City, high-speed rail drops off and a monorail or peoplemover takes people on shorter commutes (pipe dream I know).

kcookiebaker · Post by **kcookiebaker** » Oct Tue 06, 2009 9:11 am

What will this do to/for Universal Studios/SeaWorld, etc. the non-Disney parks?
Does it stop for them or are they eliminated? Have they reacted?
I can see Disney wanting a direct, or semi-direct train from the airport...with a Disney stop, could eliminate those Magical bus trip, but is the trip from Tampa really worth a rail? There has to be more to it.

I would like to see funding for Birmingham-Atlanta-Chattanooga...anything to help with the chaos of Atlanta traffic and airport.

Mr.ToadWildRider · Post by **Mr.ToadWildRider** » Oct Wed 07, 2009 8:04 am

If they're using high speed rails they should emulate Japan's system. There are a bunch of stops but they are spread pretty far and over several different lines.

agingerbugg · Post by **agingerbugg** » Oct Wed 07, 2009 8:36 am

This is the proposed high speed rail system for Florida. It doesn't seem to be too convenient for people like me in Gainesville. If I wanted to take the train to WDW, I would need to go to Tampa and then commute over, it would be quicker and cheaper just to drive.

Peerless83 · Post by **Peerless83** » Oct Mon 12, 2009 8:25 pm

Tampa has been trying to get a high speed train for the last 300 years...soooo I will believe it when I see it (even though I fully support it and hope that it comes to fruition!)

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Oct Mon 12, 2009 8:54 pm

Hey I went to college in Tampa last century and I thought we were fighting for a Pony Express stop??