It's a Small World!! Changes!!

Disneyland and California Adventure parks

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Captain Schnemo
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Post by Captain Schnemo » Feb Tue 17, 2009 11:26 pm

I'm saying you have the right to not care or think about things in certain ways, and Walt created his works knowing that a certain percentage of the audience was going to feel that way. I would encourage you to think a little more about things because thinking is fun and adds greatly to the experience, but if you don't want to, that's cool.

My objection is to the idea that the people who do choose to think about things are the ones who, as you said, shouldn't be taken seriously. Walt took his work seriously, and I don't believe it's unreasonable for us to respect that.

And I find the overuse of Walt's "not a museum" quote particularly condescending, especially given that the "purists", as you call us, would love nothing more than to see continued improvement and change.

If I sound rude, I apologize, but I don't think I've said anything about you that you didn't offer first.

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Post by sockfire » Feb Wed 18, 2009 2:03 am

We've both been a little condescending, and I'd like to turn that around.

I propose we stop this bantering as it has derailed the conversation. Everyone else mysteriously went quiet. If you'd like to continue the conversation, please send me a PM.

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Post by Jacca5660 » Feb Wed 18, 2009 5:04 am

Captain Schnemo wrote:
sockfire wrote:How do these changes encourage me to stop thinking?
Everything in your response to the change indicates that you haven't thought much about the attraction. In part, that's the fault of the attraction for not stimulating your brain and making you think of it only as a place with cute dolls and a song that sticks in your head.

I was hoping they'd address that, but instead they moved farther away from the original intention.
I understand your point, but you are not hearing mine.
I hear it loud and clear, I just find it incredibly depressing.

Your point is that you don't care if the attractions are smart or if the people designing them put careful thought into creating them for you. Attitudes like this encourage the degradation of the parks and that bums me out.
All you're doing is depressing me and ruining my good time. But maybe that's your intention.
Absolutely not. I try to encourage people to think about the entertainment they're consuming and maybe a little bit about why things are done the way they are. It's not just about pointing out what's wrong with some attractions, but about highlighting what is/was great about others. You can appreciate these things on many different levels, and it only gives you more respect for the genius that was responsible for them.

There's a reason Disney attractions were considered to be the pinnacle of quality. The Disney name didn't always mean something, Walt fought hard to get the respect he earned. All manner of scholarly papers were written on what Walt did and how and why he did it.

Now they're just coasting on this good will.
Here's the bottom-line, in my opinion. It's a kids ride.
Just stick a dagger in my heart, why don't you?

If a farting dog wandered into any kids movie at five minute intervals, the kids would probably love it.

The thing that made Disney famous and worthy of attention is that he created things that were better than they needed to be, and at the same time had mass appeal. They were entertaining as hell, but also good for you. Not like the mindless drivel the Disney Channel is currently filled with, but educational and thought-provoking things that you were actually excited to see.

And these things worked whether or not a person wanted to use his brain, so everyone could enjoy them (although hopefully he could trick the audience into a little bit of thinking or learning from time to time). If a person didn't want to think about the words the dolls are singing or why there's a hippo here or a gondola there, they didn't have to, but a person who wanted to appreciate it on a higher level would get something extra out of it.

This isn't me being elitist, this is the entire Walt Disney philosophy. If you don't like that, your problem isn't with me, it's with Walt.
I think one of the points being put forward here is that Walt didn't want just a "KID RIDE", his goal was to make something that both kids and adults could enjoy together. These things, as Walt showed us, were very possible and profitable. The current thinking at Disney corporate is placate the lowest common denominator. As has been said, somebody at Disney has to think about where they are not only going but also where they came from. This isn't a carnival it's Disney and that should at least stand for something.

IMHO, No I don't think he's being RUDE! I do believe that people sometimes feel that the truth is rude. It's like catching someone in a lie. They will get angry for being caught and forget about the lie in the first place.
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sockfire
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Post by sockfire » Feb Wed 18, 2009 9:47 am

Are you guys upset about that "purist" comment I made? You know I was just teasing.

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Post by Captain Schnemo » Feb Wed 18, 2009 10:26 am

Leaving the personal comments behind, Jacca makes an excellent point in that small world was not designed to be a "kids ride".

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Post by sockfire » Feb Wed 18, 2009 10:38 am

Captain Schnemo wrote:Leaving the personal comments behind, Jacca makes an excellent point in that small world was not designed to be a "kids ride".
Right, "Family ride". I have been choosing my words poorly. Excuse me.

I really think you guys ought to ride it before you completely making up your mind. Try to be open to the changes. Families can still enjoy the ride, have fun, and take home the original message. We did. See for yourself.

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Post by Captain Schnemo » Feb Wed 18, 2009 11:22 am

Even "family ride" misses the point. It's to be enjoyed by adults without kids too, just the way that dancing video is.

Seeing the ride in person has nothing to do with the underlying rationale for the changes. I don't doubt you can still have fun on the ride, but that's neither here nor there.

You're doing this on purpose, aren't you? :wink:

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Post by sockfire » Feb Wed 18, 2009 11:41 am

Captain Schnemo wrote:Even "family ride" misses the point. It's to be enjoyed by adults without kids too, just the way that dancing video is.

Seeing the ride in person has nothing to do with the underlying rationale for the changes. I don't doubt you can still have fun on the ride, but that's neither here nor there.

You're doing this on purpose, aren't you? :wink:

Doing what?

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Post by Jacca5660 » Feb Thu 19, 2009 4:29 am

sockfire wrote:Are you guys upset about that "purist" comment I made? You know I was just teasing.
I wasn't attacking you personally, I am very sorry if it came across that way. It was an attack on Disney. I understand your point of view, I just disagree.

I believe Captain Schnemo means you are playing the devils advocate!

I also believe in all of this there is one thing that hasn't been touched. IMHO and I could be wrong, but aren't the dolls of IASW Disney icons in their own right?
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Post by ronatie » Feb Thu 26, 2009 11:34 pm

I saw it this weekend in person and I have to say all the changes were seamless. For those of you who don't know, they basically added characters from Disney movies to their appropriate regions ie: Alice and Peter Pan in England, Lilo and Stitch in Hawaii, Simba in Africa, Woody and Bullseye in the US (which is a whole new section). My knee-jerk reaction before seeing it was "sacrilege" but it was well done so I liked it. It didn't take anything away from the ride as a whole. In fact it got me thinking that other rides could use similar changes: maybe Jungle Cruise could have a Lion King,Jungle Book, Tarzan tie in. Maybe Space Mountain could use a Buzz Lightyear revamp.

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Post by Jacca5660 » Feb Fri 27, 2009 6:48 am

ronatie wrote:I saw it this weekend in person and I have to say all the changes were seamless. For those of you who don't know, they basically added characters from Disney movies to their appropriate regions ie: Alice and Peter Pan in England, Lilo and Stitch in Hawaii, Simba in Africa, Woody and Bullseye in the US (which is a whole new section). My knee-jerk reaction before seeing it was "sacrilege" but it was well done so I liked it. It didn't take anything away from the ride as a whole. In fact it got me thinking that other rides could use similar changes: maybe Jungle Cruise could have a Lion King,Jungle Book, Tarzan tie in. Maybe Space Mountain could use a Buzz Lightyear revamp.
MERCY!!! PLEASE STOP??
"Our dreams can come true - if we have the courage to pursue them" WED

"There's a fine prow on that steamer, let's climb aboard her!" Fireside

"You're off the map mateys..Here there be SeaMonsters!!"

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Post by purple figment » Feb Sat 28, 2009 5:04 pm

ronatie wrote:In fact it got me thinking that other rides could use similar changes: maybe Jungle Cruise could have a Lion King,Jungle Book, Tarzan tie in. Maybe Space Mountain could use a Buzz Lightyear revamp.
You ARE kidding about this last bit, aren't you? That's the kind of thinking that got the world's MOST annoying character in Tiki Room Under New Management at Disney World. Leave the classics alone. Buzz already has his own ride. Whatever you think of the comedy aspect of the Jungle Cruise, most of the animals are rendered realistically enough that an animated tie in would ruin the ride. I do love Jungle Cruise, but would rather they tear it down than add Simba. (Simba has the Animal Kingdon Festival of the Lion King anyway).
While I admittedly haven't seen the Small World changes, and hope that they are decent, the thought of the addition of other characters makes me squeamish.
I am NOT a "purist". I am all for change, when it is reasonable. This does not seem reasonable, although I will reserve final judgement for when I actually ride it.

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Post by garyman » Mar Mon 02, 2009 2:24 pm

I agree, adding more Disney Characters on other rides seems a bit of an overkill.

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Post by Jacca5660 » Mar Mon 02, 2009 8:08 pm

Yea why don't we get Disney to add Hitch Hiking Ghost to Autotopia. Oh yea they could also add some coffins on the turns with wrecked cars and make it really scary!
"Our dreams can come true - if we have the courage to pursue them" WED

"There's a fine prow on that steamer, let's climb aboard her!" Fireside

"You're off the map mateys..Here there be SeaMonsters!!"

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Post by Botts » Apr Wed 01, 2009 2:14 am

sockfire wrote:I don't really see it as any different than all the corporate sponsorships that helped open the park to begin with. For instance, ATIS was a big ad for Monsanto chemicals. Let's also not forget the FedEx ads in the Space Mountain queue, or the AT&T branding of the Indiana Jones queue. There are tons of other examples.
On a side note, is it bad that I truly do miss the FedEx ads in the Space Mountain queue?

Back on topic, I think Lilo wasn't a terrible addition, but adding Stitch to a ride about the children of the world was a bit over the top.

Also, I don't remember, but were the pink, purple, and blue koala's in the original ride?

And being a Canadian, I'm glad they left the stereotypical Mountie in the ride, I thought it may have dissapeared :D

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