Epcot used to mean something

[subsonic]

Chris Wallace over at Horizons: Resurrected makes a great post that goes with my "fanboy" line of thinking. Call me a fanboy, nostalgic, or whatever. But I simply cannot deny the fact that Disney is really losing it's vision. Where is the "Theme" in "Theme park" going? To me, it's just sad.

http://horizonsresurrected.com/2011/02/ ... something/

[mindflipper]

He is right about one thing: if the park is making profit, then there's no reason to do anything about the sorry state of how EPCOT is being transformed.

Is Pixie Hollow going into EPCOT? I remember at one point it was part of the Fantasyland Expansion, but if it has been taken out of there why not just dump it instead into the Animation area of DHS? It fits better there than EPCOT.

[subsonic]

The problem with these "it's making a profit" things is they are usually temp fixes but don't have longtail gains. The lack of theming gets tired quickly.

Yes, Pixie Hollow is going into Epcot based on the article.

[elizabethswann]

Wow, are you serious about Pixie Hollow? I would have put it on hiatus orgotridofit.

[mindflipper]

I wish I could see something official out of Disney that says that Pixie Hollow is going into EPCOT. It really just doesn't make any sense.

Most of Corporate America only thinks of short-term gains and not long-term planning. As long as you can keep up the short-term profit everything looks good; however, when that house of cards fall - ouch. It's the mentality that gave us the housing market collapse.

[dichuy]

My understanding, from what I read somewhere else, was that moving them to EPCOT was temporary while the Fantasyland construction was going on. Then it would be moved back. I can not remember where/when I read it, nor do I know if it is 100% accurate, but I'm hoping that is the case.

[mindflipper]

My understanding, from what I read somewhere else, was that moving them to EPCOT was temporary while the Fantasyland construction was going on. Then it would be moved back. I can not remember where/when I read it, nor do I know if it is 100% accurate, but I'm hoping that is the case.

It's some relief, but I still think it fits better theme-wise with DHS than EPCOT.

[Len90]

The problem with these "it's making a profit" things is they are usually temp fixes but don't have longtail gains. The lack of theming gets tired quickly.

Yes, Pixie Hollow is going into Epcot based on the article.

The root of this problem is that Disney wants to keep making a profit. They will continue to use temp. fixes for things and we have seen what happens with this in Future World. The theming of Future World is completely gone and the whole area needs to be gutted. Unfortunately the proper solution will cost too much money and will interfere with Disney's current profits. Businesses don't fully think about the long term future. They seem to only worry about the short-term future and how everything will work out. Thus, the temporary fix will get chosen 9 out of 10 times.

Somehow, for every short-term temp fix Disney finds another temp fix.

[subsonic]

Yes, it's very sad. I think what I hate most is how I feel so helpless when it comes to caring about Disney's vision. We tried to start up people for the peoplemover petition but things like this simply get lost. The mass population (read: once or twice tourists) don't know any better. They don't have any basis. I doubt anybody of them question why there's cartoons in Tomorrowland or Pixies (fantasy) in Epcot. Sad.

[mindflipper]

Yes, it's very sad. I think what I hate most is how I feel so helpless when it comes to caring about Disney's vision. We tried to start up people for the peoplemover petition but things like this simply get lost. The mass population (read: once or twice tourists) don't know any better. They don't have any basis. I doubt anybody of them question why there's cartoons in Tomorrowland or Pixies (fantasy) in Epcot. Sad.

I think that gets back to some discussion we had in other parks about needless "toonification" that is happening in all the parks. If there hadn't been Disney toons already there, it seems there is a big push to put Disney toons there. EPCOT has been no exception: Nemo into the living seas, the three caballeros into Mexico, and Kim Possible into different parts of the World Showcase. Putting Pixie Hollow does comply with this silly directive that has been driving the company (a new vision, just not walt's vision).

[Wizzard419]

The mass population (read: once or twice tourists) don't know any better.

Now that isn't very fair to say. People go to places WDW, Universal, etc. to have fun. I would imagine that is the reason anyone comes to a theme park, otherwise you would have to be a masochist who goes only to lament their perspective of the past through rose colored glasses.

I know it was said that all the work is "short sighted", but it's really not. These are not little tents and carts that will be whisked away the moment they are no longer popular, they are expected to last for years and years. The whole point is to keep people coming in and spending money within the parks to keep them viable and open. You could go back to the original design, but in practice it was shown to be flawed as it did not connect with as many guests as wanted. I personally would rather see the park adapt, and thrive, by catering to what the people want rather than see it fail under a dogma based on a modified version of a southern californian suburb.

[Len90]

Very true that it is only a theme park, but Walt wanted it to be more than just a theme park. He wanted the complete all around sensory overload experience that would keep you coming back since you can't get enough of it. The short sighted comes from the fact that TDO is breaking the sensory overload that keeps you coming back. Disney is held by most people to a higher standard than most other parks like Six Flags and Sea World. With that, people want to see the best most practical use of space and the proper moves to maintain theming. Most of the recent moves have not been to that level. They have fallen short and thus interfered with the theming and overall experience.

[mindflipper]

Very true that it is only a theme park, but Walt wanted it to be more than just a theme park. He wanted the complete all around sensory overload experience that would keep you coming back since you can't get enough of it. The short sighted comes from the fact that TDO is breaking the sensory overload that keeps you coming back. Disney is held by most people to a higher standard than most other parks like Six Flags and Sea World. With that, people want to see the best most practical use of space and the proper moves to maintain theming. Most of the recent moves have not been to that level. They have fallen short and thus interfered with the theming and overall experience.

LOL, Len90, no incarnation of EPCOT to date could live up to that high expectation! Be honest IMHO even the original EPCOT had some big flaws to it. I thought that WoM and UoE were more like history lessons than the "future" that should be in the "Future Showcase". Keeping to the theme has been a problem since Day One, but it has grown worse as time has passed.

[casrin]

That blog entry was a very interesting one.

[Wizzard419]

Very true that it is only a theme park, but Walt wanted it to be more than just a theme park. He wanted the complete all around sensory overload experience that would keep you coming back since you can't get enough of it. The short sighted comes from the fact that TDO is breaking the sensory overload that keeps you coming back. Disney is held by most people to a higher standard than most other parks like Six Flags and Sea World. With that, people want to see the best most practical use of space and the proper moves to maintain theming. Most of the recent moves have not been to that level. They have fallen short and thus interfered with the theming and overall experience.

I've read/heard/seen Walt call epcot a lot of things but "Sensory overload that would keep you coming back" was not one of them (if you've seen it that would be great to see that). The whole idea during his lifetime was for something closer to a planned community. Almost like a modern/futuristic version of Colonial Williamsburg rather than something overstated.

As to what people want, I am going to have to disagree with you in terms of context, they are on vacation and they probably do not focus on space usage issues but rather on fufilling their own wants. As long as they are having fun and their wants are being fufilled then they are happy.