Deacon on Disney - Fastpasses

[luv2cthemouse]

I disagree with all statements made except these two. It is just a fastpass. Some people know how to plan an amazing trip to WDW and some don't. Some of us use TGM, some use Touring Plans. It is all kind of the same thing really.

2. Loss of Story – the queue used to be used as a story telling tool, to set the stage for the ride or attraction. Now as you wiz by or get routed around the queue you loose out on the mystique of the ride. You lose a bit of the story. This is really evident in Animal Kingdom’s Expedition Everest. Disney’s imaginers did a great job with the ride queue. If you always fast pass the ride, or go on single rider ( as I often do ), I would strongly suggest just waiting in the line. There are sooo many props, picture, and story items in the queue, to miss it is really detracts from the ride experience. The queue lives up to its purpose of informing you while distracting you from the time you are spending on line.

6. Abuse – guests looking to beat the system have abused The FASTPASS system. From people buying FASTPASS of eBay, to people printing their own. Disney has had to continue to change the tickets, just recently adding bar codes to stem this abuse. This abuse just leads to great amount of guests that end up having a tarnished experience. If the system doesn’t exist it can’t be abused.

You contradict yourself with #2 and #5.

Another problem with FastPass is that they place it on rides that clearly don't need it. There's no reason why rides like Peter Pan where the vehicles are constantly loading and unloading should have FastPass. I don't think FastPass should be used on any ride that has a constantly moving loading area (ie. rides like PeopleMover, Spaceship Earth, Peter Pan, etc.)

Have you ever tried to get on Peter Pan's Flight in the middle of the day without a fastpass? The wait is ridiculous. I am glad they have it. But I agree about the other rides.

[Lumiere]

When we think about the moment we're able to get on/in an attraction without the 90 minute wait in the heat the FP seems like such a great concept. Add to that the possibility of allowing us a second or third ride during our park visit that would otherwise be impossible, it seems too good to give up. But I believe that clouds a host of negative issues so many have already raised.

The few that I find pretty ironic are: (1) The amount of RUNNING back and forth criss crossing the park as bdinger brought up. While you might not be spending much time in line, you sure spend a lot of time running, and missing a lot of what you're running past. Wasn't vacation once about RELAXING? (2) DisBeamer astutely noted that it builds a "virtual queue" of more people in line than there actually are i.e. the two places at once issue, which HAS to add to the amount of time the guests without in the standard line have to wait. I fear it's an illusion who's benefits don't outweigh it's negatives.

While not always possible (especially for parents with kids in school) there are a few choices one can make to improve their experience: (1) go during "off" season. There are some times of the year when park attendance is relatively low. (2) Rainy days, if your "lucky" enough to get one are GREAT times to hit the park if you don't mind the hot and sticky yellow ponchos (3) Take turns during the day of having one of your party wrap an ace bandage around their ankle and rent a wheelchair. That's usually the shortest line of all.

[PopCentury2007]

Sorry, but I'm a product of the fastpass. For those that use it the proper way, it is a great way to plan the rest of your time in the parks.

1. Division of guests:

I understand the resentment, as you say, its only human nature. I, however, have no issues using the fastpass and celebrate those that do their homework in using it as well. As for the division of guests, I just don't see it. Yes, they are physically divided, but I don't think its ruining anyones time at the parks honestly.

2. Loss of Story:

It's a flip of the coin. For those that are unwilling to utilize the fastpass, they have the opportunity to view the story items in the queue. For those that wish to use the fastpass, they must give up that opportunity for the sake of time.

3. Pre-planned attacks:

I'm sorry, but this is just doing your homework, which I believe every family does prior to their Disney experience. Not doing so is only robbing yourself of getting the most out of your vacation. Yes, there may be a loss of spontaneity, but there are several opportunities to make up for it.

4. Longer natural lines:

This I do agree with and see as unavoidable. It's the nature of the beast however, and is inevitable as the parks evolve. That's why doing your homework will really pay off. At times when the parks are more populated, there will be long lines regardless.

5. Poor Queue designs:

The rides you mentioned could offer more as far as a story. I'm not sure vandalism wouldn't happen regardless of story items. In fact, people are more distracted when having something to occupy their attention, thus made more vulnerable.

6. Abuse:

I have not encountered this, but do not doubt it. There's always some scam artist trying to take advantage of the system instead of working with it...


In the end, I feel fastpass is great tool for those that use it properly. It saves time on your trip (albeit for those that plan) and has made each trip to the world that much more enjoyable for my wife and I.

Thanks for the discussion.

[Torylovesdisney]

Here's my beef with Fast Pass. I like the concept, have no problem with planning or missing what's in the queue as I've been so many times I have many opps to see them. My beef is with WDW's policy as using Fast Passes as rewards or apologies. What I mean by that is if you have a bad experience at WDW, I dunno say a poor experience with a cast member, or a tour signed up for didn't run, or your dining ressie is lost (each of these have happened to me) a cast member has the ability to issue a Fast Pass (or 2 or 3) which can be used on any attraction. Also, for "special guests" or as a special perk these same Fast Passes will be given out.

I do not think this is fair and this is what angers me about the system. The Fast Pass opportunity should be equal for everyone and not used as a perk, reward, or apology.

-- tory

[MouseMan]

My experiance with CMs handing out fastpasses as an "apology" is a very positive one. Last trip we were on Splash Mtn when it stopped just as we were going up for the drop. After many anouncements that the ride would start up again soon, an anouncement came over the pa system saying we should wait for the CM to help us exit the vehicle. Of course they gave us the FP to use on any ride, which seemed pretty appropriate since we were ON a ride. We didn't get to experience the whole attraction from start to finish so getting on the next one quicker certainly did less the dissappointment.

[lebeau]

I've got an even better idea! They should stop offering ADRs! Everyone should have to wait for a table, every time. No seriously! But it will be ok, because Tony's has a TV playing Lady and the Tramp on a loop so you can watch it 1.2 times while you're waiting for your table! I think this will be a good idea, because with the current system people that didn't make a reservation are forced to wait a long time for a table. This creates a divide between the prepared guests and the unprepared ones. We wouldn't want the dumb people that don't make a plan for their vacation to feel awkward about stupidly not making reservations, now would we?

--FCOD

Wow. Harsh.

You do realize that if they did get rid of ADRs, the waits wouldn't be that bad, right? Most restaurants survive without ADRs. When the waits get ridiculous, people just go to a different restaraunt. WDW got along just fine for a very long time before ADRs and FP.

Just because someone doesn't realize they need to make their dinner reservations 6 months in advance does not make them "dumb". The "stupidity" to me is in the system that requires everyone plan out every minute of their vacation 6 months before they arrive.

I feel that the argument that FP lines make normal lines longer is slightly flawed as the same amount of people are in the parks and and are therefore still distributed across the rides in the usual manner. I also disagree with the other argument that the system has a psychological factor (people in normal lines resent those in FP etc.). This would be true if only certain guests were allowed FPs. Yes, one does raise an eyebrow when seeing the FP queue moving faster, but it is quid pro quo (one is likely to be in front of those people in another queue if they are not using FP).

There's really no flaw in the argument that FP lines make stand-by lines longer. FP does not create capacity. The only reason your wait is shorter is because someone else's wait has been made longer.

As for the psychological factor, I can't tell you how many people I have spoken to who have told me they would never go to WDW again partially because of FP. A lot of casual tourists have no idea why Disney is letting people cut in line. They have spent a great deal of money for a once-in-a-lifetime WDW vacation only to wait in extremely long lines while other people somehow pass them by on every ride.

Yes, they should know better. But the fact of the matter is that many don't.

If everyone used FP, there would be no advantage to anyone.

I feel that the argument that FP lines make normal lines longer is slightly flawed as the same amount of people are in the parks and and are therefore still distributed across the rides in the usual manner.

I don't think they are, though. If I am in the standby line for Test Track and hold a FastPass for Soarin' - particularly one with a return time close to when I will be finished with Test Track - I am effectively in two lines at once. They even advertise it that way; 'it holds your place in line'. You can't do that without FastPass. Or a portal device of some sort (which would be cool... I would support DisneyPortals ).

It's that 'doubling' that I believe causes the problems since you're upping the number of people in the queue - virtual queue, in this case - but the ride capacity, whatever it is, remains the same.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!

This is exactly right! I am so glad to see someone else put this so clearly!

[oboeman]

FastPass is definitely beneficial on the majority of the rides. Yes if you have the FastPass you do bypass the cue which is all a part of the experience, but if you have that FastPass do you really care about the story of the cue. The update to the FastPass is very good. Being a former castmember I could tell you all the ways that people have tried to beat the FastPass system. When people mess with the system the balance of the wait time vs FastPass time is not right. If it is all in balance the wait time for the standby line should be shorter if not around the same time the person would be waiting if there was no FastPass. The only attractions that I think should not be included are the show rides such as Soarin'. Because there is limited seating and the length of the show, the FastPass line always seems to build up and when that happens the standby line is affected. So in general I think the FassPass is a good thing for people to experience more of the park if the if people do not try to beat the FastPass system. Just my 2 cents.

[lebeau]

I like the fastpasses and think they really help the guest experience most of the time.

Please explain this to me. Since FP only benefits people who use it (or know how to use it), how is it benefitting people most of the time?

Even the casual tourist who has figured out how to use FP doesn't know how to use it effectively. The majority of park guests are actually harmed by FP.

Those of us here on the forums who know all the ins-and-outs benefit from their lack of knowledge. That's why FP is so popular here.

I'm also swayed by the argument of it ruining your day by having to rush around and try to plan meals and shows around specific ride times. It also ruins any chance a casual rider might have of happening upon a short line at a popular ride, since it systematically pads any possible short wait time with more people. In that sense, it seems like something some pencil pusher came up with that improves "flow" by forcing guests to behave in a way that's best for the company, not for the guests themselves.

This is exactly how FP started. The original idea was that if Disney would hold your place in line, you would be more likely to enter the shops and restaurants that they were overbuilding all of the place. Somehow, they missed that people would just queue up twice.

[sag746]

I still think it's a good idea. I never feel sorry for the people standing on the standard line, because many times it's me when I already have a Fast Pass that has not been used yet. At least with Fast Pass you can pick and choose the rides you want to use them on.
Universal makes you purchase these. Now that is terrible and is definetly a class distinction problem (rich vs middle class).

sag746@aol.com

[secondstar]

This usually results in endless criss-crossing of the parks. For example, you're making a counter-clockwise loop around the Magic Kingdom and get a FastPass for Splash Mountain. By the time your FastPass window opens up for Splash Mountain, you may be the whole way over in Fantasyland or Tomorrowland. Now, you have to hike the whole way across the park back to Splash Mountain.

I'm not sure if that's entirely true. The last time I was at WDW (2007), your FastPass was still valid AFTER the posted time. Therefore, if you had a Splash Mountain FastPass from 10:30 - 11:30 and it was 11:25 and you were in Tomorrowland, you could obtain another FastPass for, let's say Buzz Lightyear, but you would not need to get in the Splash Mountain FastPass line within the next 5 minutes. You could enter it later in the day after its time had lapsed. (A CM told us it's good all day.) Maybe a current CM verify that for us!

I'll add one more thing to the Pros list for FastPass.

The last time I went to Cedar Point (which was several years ago), I rode FIVE RIDES ALL DAY!!!! I waited in line 2.5 hours for Top Thrill Dragster, 2 hours for Millenium Force, almost 2 hours for Raptor, over an hour for Mantis, and over an hour for Millenium Force again. That was all I did ALL DAY!!!!!

[MouseMan]

I'm not a CM, but as I understand it the system will only let you have one FP at a time, so you could not get the Buzz Lightyear FP until your SpMtn FP time was expired. Strictly speaking I don't think you are suppose to use the FP after the expire time, but I suppose if the park isn't crowded CM's would let you use it. The whole idea of giving you a specific time is to spread out the ridership so the FP line doesn't get long.

[Bri]

YEP, I hate the Fast Pass, unless it's mine They should just limit the entries to the parks better.
We were at Disneyland over Christmas holidays and never again!!! Way too crowded with lots of way rude people!

[Cheshire Cat]

Every time I've gone to Cedar Point I've been able to ride every coaster in the park and any other rides I wanted to do. The lines were constantly in motion because there was only one line per attraction.

I've been readin this forum over and over and it seems the only people that applaud fast pass are the ones that don't fully grasp what it did when it was first introduced.

In a time before fast pass, everyone waited in the same line. The lines may have been long, but nothing more than an hour at most. This is because the lines moved. There was only a single line, with everyone waiting their turn for one ride at a time.

The only reason queues with upwards of an hour wait exist is because there is the normal hour wait for the stand by, then an additional five minutes (give or take depending on the ride) for every family that enters the fast pass line while you are in the stand by.

People think that by using fast pass they are avoiding the HUGE stand-by lines, when in reality the only reason those HUGE stand-by lines exist is because of fast pass. I can't figure out an easier way to explain this. I guess I'm just a crazy person who doesn't mind waiting my turn in an equal-opportunity line.

In my crazy opinion the best way to make lines shorter (ahem, like they were before fast pass) is to get rid of fast pass. As I said, I'm crazy.

edit: I HAVE AN IDEA!

Can someone please come up with an organized list of 6 points why Fast pass works? Maybe I'm just having trouble understanding all the (so-called) benefits of the system.

[secondstar]

I'm not a CM, but as I understand it the system will only let you have one FP at a time, so you could not get the Buzz Lightyear FP until your SpMtn FP time was expired.

You can get a 2nd FastPass as soon as the Start Time passes OR 2 hours after you received your first FastPass.

[lebeau]

I'm not sure if that's entirely true. The last time I was at WDW (2007), your FastPass was still valid AFTER the posted time. Therefore, if you had a Splash Mountain FastPass from 10:30 - 11:30 and it was 11:25 and you were in Tomorrowland, you could obtain another FastPass for, let's say Buzz Lightyear, but you would not need to get in the Splash Mountain FastPass line within the next 5 minutes. You could enter it later in the day after its time had lapsed. (A CM told us it's good all day.) Maybe a current CM verify that for us!

That is true. But everytime someone does that, it throws off the balance a little bit. If enough people do that, it throws the stand-by lines even more out-of whack.

The last time I went to Cedar Point (which was several years ago), I rode FIVE RIDES ALL DAY!!!! I waited in line 2.5 hours for Top Thrill Dragster, 2 hours for Millenium Force, almost 2 hours for Raptor, over an hour for Mantis, and over an hour for Millenium Force again. That was all I did ALL DAY!!!!!

I don't see that as a reason to support FP. If anything FP makes overall lines longer, not shorter.