Deacon on Disney - Inform or Entertain

[rdeacon]

Ok back this week. Sorry for the week hiatus, but with all the sever issues I got backlogged. Let’s hope our technical issues are well behind us.

I just watched a video a couple weeks ago on the original Universe of Energy. Unfortunately I never saw the original show, and I should add I am a current fan of the Ellen-ized version. Well it was until I saw the original, with the Raddok "kinetic mosaic" film presentation. Now this video had to be recorded about 15 years ago. I was completely awe struck. I think my mouth actually dropped. What a powerful way to present a film that portrayed a powerful message. Sorry Ellen, but I want the Raddok pre-show back.

This got me to thinking about the current revamp of Epcot. Epcot has truly shifted from the original message they opened the park with. Epcot was opened with these words, “May EPCOT Center entertain, inform and inspire and above all, may it instill a new sense of belief and pride in man's ability to shape a world that offers hope to people everywhere in the world.â€

[skull]

I rode the original energy.. but I don't remember anything other then dinosaurs.... I was pretty young... I think 8 or 9...

The message has definatly be lost with EPCOT, but unlike the purists, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing...

I really doubt that EPCOT's original message would have survived in todays world. With all the technology around us now, and ways to learn new things, I don't think that very many would want to learn on vacation. I for one, when I go to WDW, just go to leave everything that requires thinking out the door. I want to go and be entertained.

Can learning be entertaining? Sure it can, but to a point. Personally I just dont want to learn when i'm on vacation. Does that make me a bad person, or ignorant? no, it just means that i'm overworked, over stressed, and want to veg out, and have some pure fun while i'm away, and leave all the educational stuff for when i'm sitting at my desk getting paid for it! hahah

I'm sure the average tourist thinks along the same lines... they just want fun without having to think about it.


The above posting is based on my own oppinion, and may or may not have any bearing on reality!

[Guy]

Can learning be entertaining? Sure it can, but to a point. Personally I just dont want to learn when i'm on vacation. Does that make me a bad person, or ignorant? no, it just means that i'm overworked, over stressed, and want to veg out, and have some pure fun while i'm away, and leave all the educational stuff for when i'm sitting at my desk getting paid for it! hahah

I think you are right - the average tourist would certainly feel the same (I know that I did). I have to say that I never new the 'original' Epcot as my first visit was in May 2007! That said, I was still blown away by the vision, technology and the learning aspect - one of the best parks!

I would love to see the video of the original Universe of Energy - anyone know if it's online any where?

[Bri]

I like it all however I love learning also. I anxiously await the behind the scenes tours like the train tour, the greenhouse tour and anything else that is really interesting. And yes it is also fun to go into mindless mode too but lets keep a good mix going.
L8R, Bri

[Captain Schnemo]

Has the current society lost its ability to learn, or has become too lazy to want to learn?

Despite the posts above, I don't think it's fair to blame the audience. The idea that the society of the 1980s was somehow more receptive to learning than today's is complete nonsense. Reagan was in charge and a "Don't think, just trust me!" atmosphere was in vogue.

The problem comes from above. Disney made a conscious decision to deviate from the original concept, primarily because it was the easiest path to take. You need more than an amusement park ride designer to create a proper EPCOT-style attraction. You need to bring in futurists and thinkers of all kinds from all different disciplines. It's about so much more than finding a way to make a car go fast.

Hiring these people is not particularly expensive (how many incredibly wealthy Philosophy PhDs do you know?) or difficult, but the net result is more risky than a simple cartoon product tie-in, and corporate boardrooms don't like risk. It's true that they lack vision ("Hey, let's copy Universal Studios/Busch Gardens/Discovery Cove!"), but it's not an accident or a personal failing, it's a conscious decision to not risk pursuing greatness and play it safe in the name of capitalism.

Additionally, the "educational" aspect of the original EPCOT attractions is overstated. No one would confuse Journey into Imagination, World of Motion, or Horizons with things you'd find in the Smithsonian. The words "thoughtful" or "inspiring" are more applicable.

Lecturing the public would not have succeeded. The trick was to not tell people what was possible, but to show them. They didn't tell you an undersea lab was possible or explain what technology would be necessary to create such a thing, they just flat-out built it.

So, if you just liked shiny objects, you could go there, be amazed, shut your brain off, look at the pretty fishies, and have a good time. In the lucky event that you had a thoughtful child, however, he might be inspired by the seabase itself, and grow up accepting that such a thing was not only a possibility, but an inevitability, because he'd already seen it.

This kind of thing has the potential to change the world, by giving the next generation the belief that the future is going to be a great place.

The old attractions had resonance. The ideas presented could rattle around in your head for years after you'd seen them. As the real world progressed, you could see reflections of their visions in new discoveries. They could be a filter through which new ideas or inventions could be viewed and provide a context for imagining what's possible and what problems need to be solved.

This kind of thing just does not happen with singing cartoon fish, boring pop culture references, or an examination of technology you already own.

I just wonder if the inform part of the speech has become empty words.

I don't think there's any argument that could be made to the contrary. Disney wouldn't even debate this point.

I really doubt that EPCOT's original message would have survived in todays world.

I have seen no evidence that supports this. People in the 80s didn't have some deep yearning to be educated. They didn't know they wanted intelligent attractions, Disney simply created them and let people discover that they liked them.

I've said this many times before, but if Walt had given people what they said or thought they wanted instead of what Walt knew was best, this forum wouldn't exist and none of us would have given him a second thought.

You can't blame this one on the people. There must be a willingness within the content creators to think big and provide a superior experience.

[mousemaniacs]

Maybe they've just determined that these educational attractions don't have as much "replay value". I'm sure the Raddok pre-show was, as you say, inspirational, but maybe its impact is reduced the more it is experienced (or at least more so than something more focused on entertainment). Just a theory...

[ConanBaltar]

Gone are the days of informing the public and in are the days of entertaining and inspiring them.

I agree that the overt educational aspect of Epcot is passing away, but Epcot still retains the distinctive aspect that made it famous. It seeks to expose, explore, and recreate the different manifestations of humanity around the world and to contemplate, evaluate, and predict the future manifestations of humanity in the future.

I still get chill bumps on Spaceship Earth. And I'm no less awed simply walking around the park itself, with all its interesting architectures and futurist artifacts.

Since Epcot was founded, however, the digital revolution (with the internet and mobile telephones) has transformed human society. In a sense, Epcot as it was in 1982 has ceased to exist merely because reality caught up with fantasy.

In that vein, Epcot needs to and is redefining itself. People are constantly saturated with information in the real world. There is little that old Epcot presented that a mainstream of society today isn't already aware of. And I think that people aren't as "awed" with the future (or, "abstract future") as they used to be.

So, they have to change tactics. It's still cool to present predictions of the future, which they do with Spaceship Earth. But they've gone further to incorporate the fantasy and mythology of a realistic future, such as in Mission: Space.

In my opinion, the Energy and Land pavilions need a serious re-think to present a more covert educational experience, which Epcot does much more successfully.

So, on the whole, I think Epcot still is educational in nature, but they need to catch up with the way information in the information age is presented.

[Lumiere]

I'm so impressed on everybody's thoughts with this topic. Actually, maybe not impressed but intrigued. My first visit to Epcot was in 1985 and needless to say I was blown away. Having made numerous pilgrimages since then, WDW remains a favorite destination for me.

Perhaps one issue several of you are already touching on is the fact that technology is all around us every day. In the mid-80s, visitors to WDW had never seen most of the technologies represented there. Today, in order for the park to have the same impact, they would need to keep the cutting edge represented in the pavilions and attractions which I'm not sure it's possible anymore. the moment anything cool emerges on this planet it shows up on webpages and You Tube. I'm not saying today's guests are jaded, the world is just a different place today

One quick comment about mindless versus educational: I think there's plenty of acreage there for both. When I'm on vacation or just stealing a long weekend getaway, I'm not interested in any topics related to my work or industry. But learning something about fish or cars or the human body or outer space takes me to a whole different place that can be both a escapism and enlightening at the same time.

[Admiral01]

This post has hit the nail on the head. I obviously miss the original EPCOT Center. I was thinking the other day at work and it hit me: I miss the intrigue. I miss the feeling that I used to get when I walked out of the Universe of Energy that I had somehow just made a journey. I miss the feeling when I took that Hydrolator back up to the surface that I had actually just been on the ocean floor. I miss the optimistic views of the future (one reason I like Star Trek). I remember that feeling, and I remember that I used to feel like an explorer as I navigated around EPCOT Center. It was a purely unique feeling that no other theme park gave me, and that no theme park has given me since. I was an explorer making discoveries at every turn. Each pavilion was something new, even though I saw them each year for nearly 15 years.

Now, try to imagine a world in which some of the original ideas from the 1982 EPCOT Center find their way into the Epcot of the present. Try to imagine a new generation of Imagineers, who remember and miss UoE, The Land, and the others. World of Motion and Horizons may be gone for a long time, but the others aren't. Try to imagine someone who has an impact on the future of EPCOT reading and identifying with this forum.

Did I capture the Living Seas voice there? The next decade may redefine EPCOT Center, back to the good it had, without losing the change that happens over the course of 35 years in technology, energy, communications, agriculture, transportation, space, imagination, medicine, and the seas.

[miceman]

When you want to “tellâ€

[js3901]

I don't think that Disney was "preaching" or "lecturing" in any way. I think that throughtout the years, they've done an awesome job of "informing" and/or "telling". They've always been good at the story telling. that's the one thing that they're REALLY good at. From the time you step into the queue, until the time you walk out the end, you're in Story mode. and they do a bang-up job of hidding little nuggets of knowledge within there...

[jcodirewolf]

My question is how much does today's environment of "we can't offend anyone" play into it? What I find so offensive is the fact that you can't communicate current scientific thought at Epcot Center. don't talk about evolution, you might offend the Christians, don't talk about global warming at The Land you might offend the big oil...

Do you know how powerfully you could communicate with something like Soarin?

The Ellen-a-fied Universe of Energy is good. The previous version was dated and need to to be updated, but I don't think it has any more "replay" appeal than the new version.

at anyrate, I find the "science and learning" diluted down to the point where I think it's worthless.

johno

[danimal3114u]

Bravo, Captain Schnemo

[YZFDonor]

Let me distill one point down as far as I can:

Want Thrill Rides? We all know where to find them on and off property. Once you are burned up and need to REST on vacation, go ride The Land, World of Motion, Horizons, Spaceship Earth, Go under the Sea, and don't forget to checkle some with Figment.

I say give me back EPCOT and flush the current slime down the drain (or give it to Universal). I have been going to WDW since I was barely 2 years old in 1972. I have seen plenty change for good and bad but EPCOT has far been the worst change I have seen. When the MK is 1754 degrees in the shade and at 180% capacity, EPCOT was (and admittedly still is) a GREAT resting place to be more leisurely and take it easy in the cool.

I tried not to babble!!! ooops, I suck at that. I want to coment on everyone's points but it's all been said before and it is a VERY EMOTIONAL topic for some of us. I wager if you never knew the "old Epcot" then you just don't get it and the new one is good enough for you. You just may not know what you are missing! Deacon now gets it a lil more having seen it "old school". I would say Ellen has MUCH less re-rideability.

Eough for now. I am sure I will have more to actually say after some more posts....

[casrin]

In a similar vein, it's like how people posted in the "Old Epcot vs. New Epcot" thread in the WDW forum: to look back at video tapes or DVDs of the old attractions, to today's eyes, they are decidedly corny! Nostalgic, yes, but also corny! The whole concept of Horizons - if it were still standing - would be so irrelevant now that we're IN the 21st century and the "future" in that ride isn't even close to coming to pass.

What I do miss is the length of time spent in an attraction. Universe of Energy, With Ellen, does still take a while to ride. The others though have shifted more to amusement park 2 minute or less experiences. Sure, Test Track is FUN, but in its own way, so was the 20 minute World of Motion.