Subsonic Radio

I've mentioned Hayao Miyazaki's films a few times here recently, and I was wondering how many of you have had a chance to see his best films.

Someone recently asked me what I thought the best animated movie ever made was, and while I was trying to decide between Snow White, Dumbo and Finding Nemo, I suddenly remembered Miyazaki, and then I couldn't decide between My Neighbor Totoro, Spirited Away and Kiki's Delivery Service.

I never did come up with a singular answer, but it's a fun intellectual exercise.

Anyway, if you're a fan of animated films, I highly recommend checking out his work. Be careful if you're renting for the kids, because some of his stuff is too intense for the young uns.

Also, if you're turned off because when you think "anime", you think of all that garbage like Dragon Ball or Naruto, please give these films a chance. (For what it's worth, Miyazaki hates that stuff too.) I recommended Kiki's Delivery Service to a friend's little girl, and 10 seconds into it she was completely upset that it was "anime" and almost gave up right there. A couple minutes later, she was riveted.

If you have little kids, I'd recommend starting with My Neighbor Totoro, which is one of his more accessible films, and gentle enough for all but the most easily terrified. Also great for everyone whose heart is not made of ice. It's one of those movies that if you don't like it, you're probably an attorney or a mako shark.

As an aside, one of the biggest selling points of his films for me is the lack of singing. I hate musicals more than just about any other form of entertainment. I can't even deal with musical parodies like the South Park movie, which I've been told is hilarious, simply because the singing drives me up the wall.

I know a Disney movie is good when I'm totally into it, even when the singing starts. There's not much better than those crows in Dumbo, for example, and Pink Elephants on Parade is so effectively creepy that I don't even notice it's a song.

Anyway, if you're interested in a taste of his studio's work, here are a couple of fan-made music videos. The music has nothing to do the films, these are just clips from various films edited to match a couple songs by resourceful Internet kids. Note they're all full of spoilers, so if you want to be surprised, you probably don't want to watch these things. I just stumbled upon them on YouTube and thought they were pretty good, although the music in the first one really isn't my thing.

Here's one. And another one.

You'll notice that Miyazaki really, really, really likes flying.

Captain Schnemo wrote:Someone recently asked me what I thought the best animated movie ever made was, and while I was trying to decide between Snow White, Dumbo and Finding Nemo, I suddenly remembered Miyazaki, and then I couldn't decide between My Neighbor Totoro, Spirited Away and Kiki's Delivery Service.

I never did come up with a singular answer, but it's a fun intellectual exercise.

Eep. That's almost a mean question... too hard. Of the group you've listed there, though I'd probably go with Totoro. Kiki's a close second though. And I might throw in Sleeping Beauty. ... yeah I'll be thinking about this all night now.

Also, if you're turned off because when you think "anime", you think of all that garbage like Dragon Ball or Naruto, please give these films a chance. (For what it's worth, Miyazaki hates that stuff too.) I recommended Kiki's Delivery Service to a friend's little girl, and 10 seconds into it she was completely upset that it was "anime" and almost gave up right there. A couple minutes later, she was riveted.

I was having this discussion with a friend of mine the other day, and she was waxing poetic about how angry it makes her when she mentions watching something like Bebop to someone, and they think 'psh you're watching cartoons'. I can understand how they don't make the distinction if they're only familiar with Naruto or (*gag*) DBZ but it's sad people write off the whole type of animation as being the same. It's akin to saying "Well that Ace Ventura 2 movie was pretty bad, therefore all live-action Hollywood movies are bad" in my mind. I'm not sure I can even articulate how different Miyazaki's stuff is from Naruto.

Ranting aside, I second the vote for people to try Totoro as their first Miyazaki. So incredibly sweet and moving, and a good bet for younger kids (out of his films, anyway). The dubbed version of it isn't bad, either (this from a subtitling purist ), so you don't even have to read if you don't want to.

I've attempted to watch Hayao Miyazaki films before (Howl's Moving Castle being the latest), but just can't get into anime. I'm not quite sure what it is, but I just can't watch it. I think it's something to do with the mouths not matching up to the words (I know they're originally made for Japanese speakers, then dubbed into English).

That holds true for all forms of anime (DBZ-type shows and the movies) at least for me.

If you can tolerate movies (or tv shows) with subtitles, I'd suggest trying again with a sub'd version instead of a dub. Subs are, almost without exception, much much better than dubs, particularly when they've altered the script to try to get the mouths to match the words better.

Well Justin we are in the same boat again, I too cannot get into the whole anime genre. I'm sure the stories are good but there is something about anime that never entices me to watch again. And before you ask the question, Yes I do watch (and love) foreign films that have subtitles. and back when I new how to speak German (back when Run Lola Run came out) I enjoyed watching American films in German........Man I have to learn to speak it again......

Dr. Ravenscroft wrote:Well Justin we are in the same boat again, I too cannot get into the whole anime genre.

A nitpicky point, but anime isn't technically a 'genre', in the same way that television and movies aren't genres unto themselves, but there are different genres in film and television (and video games and anime and music .. and whatever else). You can find as many different genres of stories in anime as in any other broadcast 'art form'. Anyway, I do know what you mean - you just stumbled on a pet peeve of mine.

My question before wasn't so much a 'you must not like subtitles' kinda thing, as it was if you've never tried it you might want to (or js might want to, in that instance). Nothin' wrong with not liking anime regardless - t'was just a suggestion since a lot of the time the original Japanese voice acting is superior and, at least to me, crummy voice acting can ruin anything you're watching, regardless of language.

DisBeamer wrote:That's almost a mean question... too hard.

We were doing that with a lot of different types of movies, and when we got to Westerns, my brain nearly exploded. I kind of settled on Once Upon a Time in the West, because Unforgiven is revisionist and sort of doesn't count. Although so is Once, really, so that's not even fair.

I was having this discussion with a friend of mine the other day, and she was waxing poetic about how angry it makes her when she mentions watching something like Bebop to someone, and they think 'psh you're watching cartoons'.

Cowboy Bebop is one of my favorite shows in the history of television (if you consider it part of that medium, I guess). I love how it seems to be just a fun action show until halfway through, and then it just crushes your soul at the end. Fantastic.

My experience with anime is fairly limited, but I usually check out whatever is on Cartoon Network. I'm almost always disappointed, but it's worth it to keep looking, because you never know when you're going to find a gem like FLCL or Bebop.

"Well that Ace Ventura 2 movie was pretty bad, therefore all live-action Hollywood movies are bad"

That's exactly the way I read the situation. Most entertainment in any format is terrible. Even if you watched a full day of network television on any given day, you have a pretty good chance of not seeing anything very good. I've met snooty people of the "television rots the brain" type and these people are just close-minded idiots. The sort of people who say they'd never go to a Disney park because they "don't like rides".

Yeah, almost everything on television is bad, but the good things are extremely good and come in so many different forms that to throw Ken Burns documentaries out with the sitcom bathwater is ridiculous.

I have to figure that if anyone who likes Disney cartoons just "can't get into anime", it's because they've seen some real crap. A lot of the highly regarded stuff is very overrated, such as Akira, which people seem to love and looks beautiful, but is pretty lame in the plot department.

Anyway, I guess it's time to bitch about Disney again here...as Beamer says, I know it's tempting to watch the dubs since Miyazaki's visuals are so extraordinary and it's easier to be lazy, but the Disney dubs for most of the movies are awful. They've gone so far as to change a key plot point (and thus part of the meaning of the entire film) in Kiki's Delivery Service. And typically they destroy all the subtle humor by having the characters blurt out things that are completely obvious. Sometimes it seems that they don't even know what the original dialog is, they're just writing down what they're seeing on the screen.

They often don't seem to do a very good job of getting the sound to fit within the environment of the film, and it sounds a lot more like actors in a little box in front of a microphone than a typical cartoon. And their vocal choices are also often pretty poor, such as picking people who are too old to play younger characters, or people who overact to the gills because they don't understand what kind of movie they're in.

I loved Phil Hartman, but I think I should warn everyone that his work in Kiki's Delivery Service is so annoying that I almost didn't make it through the first time I saw it. Imagine Casablanca or your favorite film with the lead characters re-voiced by Jerry Lewis and Fran Drescher and you get a good idea for how this can ruin a movie.

Actually, as far as I know, my dislike of Akira could have more to do with a lousy dub than anything else.

Anyway, all complaining aside, I find it very difficult to believe that anyone who likes Disney movies could dislike something like Totoro, if they're willing to give it the time. I haven't seen the new dub that came out last year or so, but the old one wasn't bad, so I'm guessing they didn't screw it up too much. And the dubbing for Spirited Away is also pretty good, relatively speaking (although they did the wrong age thing again with one of the side characters).

I haven't actually seen Howl's Moving Castle yet, and one of the reasons is that I read Billy Crystal is doing one of the voices. That sounds to me like another Phil Hartman scenario in the making, so it spooked me off seeing it in theatres. I'll probably rent it soon.

I often find that I like Miyazaki's movies even better the more I watch them. They're kind of like the best Disney attractions in that way that you can always notice more details, or realize why certain choices were made and how that affects how you feel about the characters. There's a real sense that every single thing is in the movie for a reason. There's no fluff or padding just to make the thing 90 minutes long...and no pointless singing!

I'm not a big fan of subtitles (or closed captioning for that matter). the only time I find the subtitles come in handy is if I'm watching a DVD and can't understand a word or phrase that was just said. depending on how much is on the screen (as far as words), you spend more time reading, and could miss the action on the screen. I have a one-track mind, as in I don't multitask very well, and I can either read the subtitles, or watch what's happening on the screen. and just personal preference, I'd rather watch what's happening.

like I said before, I've tried to watch them, but just can't get into them. nothing against the style of animation or anything, just can't seem to stay focused on it...

Hmm. That's a tough question and I'm not that big of an animated film buff to actually decide on the best one based on all the technical merits.

I used to be a huge anime fan, and would always tell people to watch it in the original language with english subtitles. I still do. However, I find that to the casual viewer, the dub voice work for the Miyazaki films are actually really good compared to other films/series.

I've only seen Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, Kiki's Delivery Service and some of My Neighbor Totoro. Out of those, Kiki is probably my favorite. I'm not too sure why, but probably because the story was easiest to follow. I do appreciate how the art is used to create a message, at least in the first two films. Also, that the heroines are girls.

When it comes to anime on CN, I have no clue on what they're showing. I know when I was new to anime, that would be my primary source back in the day.

I'm not a big fan of anime, but if the stories are good enough to compare to Disney's, I guess I'll have to try to sit through one.

I can't put my finger on it, but there's something about anime that I find visually disturbing and I have trouble focusing on the story and anything else, but the way the animation looks. About the only type of anime I can tolerate is CGI anime.

Captain Schnemo wrote:Cowboy Bebop is one of my favorite shows in the history of television (if you consider it part of that medium, I guess). I love how it seems to be just a fun action show until halfway through, and then it just crushes your soul at the end. Fantastic.

My experience with anime is fairly limited, but I usually check out whatever is on Cartoon Network. I'm almost always disappointed, but it's worth it to keep looking, because you never know when you're going to find a gem like FLCL or Bebop.

Cartoon Network is hit and miss with what they have. They used to (I'm told) have better stuff on late but they've kind of wandered. If you liked Bebop that much, I would strongly suggest you check out Samurai Champloo, if you haven't. They were showing it on CN at one point, in any case. It's by the same creator as Bebop and rivals CB as one of my favorite shows ever, anime or otherwise. The dubs of it aren't bad, though I watched the series several times in Japanese before it was ever dubbed so I can't get used to them. They're probably better than I give them credit for, though. I think CN also showing Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex at the moment as well - a good bet if you're into sci fi.

Actually, as far as I know, my dislike of Akira could have more to do with a lousy dub than anything else.

They actually did a rescripting/remake of the dub a few years ago (how many eludes me ... it wasn't that long ago, though) that makes a lot more sense than the original dub. At least it did to me. Still over-hyped, in my opinion, however it might be worth another shot.

I haven't actually seen Howl's Moving Castle yet, and one of the reasons is that I read Billy Crystal is doing one of the voices. That sounds to me like another Phil Hartman scenario in the making, so it spooked me off seeing it in theatres. I'll probably rent it soon.

It's worth the rental, and it's beautiful, however I feverishly hope they stop asking comedians to do the voice overs for these things. It's debatable whether Billy is more or less annoying than Phil, but he gives Hartman a run for his money. I think Billy Crystal is very funny, but he seemed to feel the need to go a little over the top with the voice to make up for people not being able to see his facial expressions, imo. Probably something similar to Hartman, come to think of it.

Lion Sleeps Tonight wrote:I used to be a huge anime fan, and would always tell people to watch it in the original language with english subtitles. I still do. However, I find that to the casual viewer, the dub voice work for the Miyazaki films are actually really good compared to other films/series.

All that said about Billy Crystal and Phil Hartman, I still agree with this. Miyazaki's films have some of the best dubbing of anything that's been shipped over here, which is a nice thing considering how much they deserve to be seen.

DisBeamer wrote:If you liked Bebop that much, I would strongly suggest you check out Samurai Champloo, if you haven't.

I thought Champloo was entertaining, but it didn't have the impact of Bebop. I kept hoping it would turn into something more, but it didn't really break out of the standard episodic form. Better than most everything else on television, I guess, but nothing I'd rave about or recommend to any of my non-nerd friends.

Still over-hyped, in my opinion, however it might be worth another shot.

I dunno. I think it got a lot more attention than it deserved, simply because most Westerners hadn't seen that level of violence and such in an animated film. That, coupled with the beautiful art, was enough to turn a lot of heads, but the movie seemed empty inside to me. Could have been the bad dub, but I wasn't excited enough about it to give it another look, really.

Awesome motorcycle scenes, though.

It's debatable whether Billy is more or less annoying than Phil, but he gives Hartman a run for his money.

Ugh. Well, I think I did the right thing in waiting for the subtitle.

Lion Sleeps Tonight wrote:However, I find that to the casual viewer, the dub voice work for the Miyazaki films are actually really good compared to other films/series.

I agree that it's better than most, and that a reasonable job was done on some of the films, but some of the dubs are incredibly bad.

For example, they almost completely destroyed the tone of Porco Rosso, which is filled with subtle wit and romance. Much of the clever dialog is converted into graceless American slang, and a lot of well-placed silence is filled up with inane chatter for no reason. Some of the playful sexist jokes they tried to water down result in dialog that is inadvertently more offensive.

Here's a random example: The main character (a WWI flying ace who is, inexplicably, now a pig) is playing the Humphrey Bogart role in this picture and he sees three old ladies he's obviously known for a long time.

In the Disney dub, he says something like "Aren't you ladies dead yet?" and they all giggle. The original line is something like "Haven't the angels come for you yet?", which is complimentary and rude at the same time, and therefore actually funny.

All of the characters jump about 30 IQ points just by switching from Disney to Miyazaki with a press of a remote button. Pretty metaphorical right there.

They do a much better job with the films where the dialog is less complex and "adult".

Captain Schnemo wrote:I thought Champloo was entertaining, but it didn't have the impact of Bebop. I kept hoping it would turn into something more, but it didn't really break out of the standard episodic form. Better than most everything else on television, I guess, but nothing I'd rave about or recommend to any of my non-nerd friends.

That's kind of the problem with Bebop; it's definitely a high watermark and comparing everything to it will typically lead to disappointment (sort of an odd phrasing, I guess, to call it a 'problem', but hopefully my meaning gets through there...). Sort of like comparing all films to Citizen Kane.
Champloo doesn't quite rank with CB, I don't think, and had more than a couple of dud episodes. I do think it managed to follow its overall story-arc pretty well. The character development wasn't as strong as it could have been (though it's a bit better in the original than in the dub, as usual). I'd put it on about the Serial Experiments Lain level for myself (though not nearly as depressing).

I dunno. I think it got a lot more attention than it deserved, simply because most Westerners hadn't seen that level of violence and such in an animated film. That, coupled with the beautiful art, was enough to turn a lot of heads, but the movie seemed empty inside to me. Could have been the bad dub, but I wasn't excited enough about it to give it another look, really.

Awesome motorcycle scenes, though.

I looked it up finally. The new english dub was done in 2001 so if that's the one you saw then yeah - that's pretty much all there is to it. The original early 90s one was based off a script dubbed for China and I believe is part of the reason that it wasn't particularly well done. I think Akira deserves recognition in having been the trailblazer for anime that followed it int North America (versus, say, Astroboy-quality stuff), but I certainly agree much, much better stuff has come along since then.

Ugh. Well, I think I did the right thing in waiting for the subtitle.

Most assuredly.

Princess Mononoke was the first one i watched. I saw previews for Kiki's then got hooked. The Cat Returns, Whisper of the Heart, Pom Poko, Castle in the Sky, Spirited Away (much better than Howl's), Howl's Moving Castle, My Neighbor Totoro, oh man the list goes on. Nausica Valley of the Wind. also check out Porco Rosso! if you want a moving story check out Grave of the Fireflies.....its a tough one, its a semi-autobiography (the writer changed the ending a bit) very heart touching...you will cry...its not an uplifting happy movie...but very very good. (it depicts the Japanese side of WW2 from the viewpoint of a young 12-13 yr old. boy, and his sister who he is left to take care of since his parents are dead.

Croaker wrote:if you want a moving story check out Grave of the Fireflies.....its a tough one, its a semi-autobiography (the writer changed the ending a bit) very heart touching...you will cry...its not an uplifting happy movie...but very very good. (it depicts the Japanese side of WW2 from the viewpoint of a young 12-13 yr old. boy, and his sister who he is left to take care of since his parents are dead.

Ooh I forgot about that one. That is very good, in a soul-crushing-depressing kind of way. Excellent story.