Studio Ghibli

[Captain Schnemo]

That's kind of the problem with Bebop; it's definitely a high watermark and comparing everything to it will typically lead to disappointment...

I ran into that problem with comic books. The first couple of titles I read are now recognized as masterpieces by geniuses in the field. Picking up a random issue of X-Men after reading Alan Moore's stuff is one pretty monumental let down.

I can see how people become of the opinion that they don't like anime in relation to comics. If you went into any comic store on a given day and selected 20 random titles, they'd probably all be embarrassingly bad.

Too bad most people haven't discovered what diamond in the rough Ghibli is.

I do think [Samurai Champloo] managed to follow its overall story-arc pretty well.

True, but it felt a bit like Pokemon, in that the entire series was leading towards one climactic moment, from the very beginning. Bebop was much more like real life...each character had some goals, but there was no guarantee that achieving them was going to be in any way rewarding. It took the time to meander in the way that we all do in life. And of course the way the characters were aware of their stereotypical personae and sort of fed into them when it was beneficial, but also used them as walls to prevent them getting hurt (or achieving real happiness) was pure genius. Also it had a pretty good dub.

The new english dub [for Akira]was done in 2001 so if that's the one you saw then yeah - that's pretty much all there is to it.

I saw an earlier version, so it's possible I'll check it out one day. About likely as me checking out the director's cut of The Abyss, which people swear is so much better than the original, but given how much I hated the ending of the original, I don't think I'm willing to risk two more hours only to potentially get outraged at the movie again.

Anyway, getting back to the actual topic, I really can't stress enough how cool it is that Miyazaki's films improve on repeated viewings. That's exactly the kind of thing you want in a film that your kids are going to drive you crazy by watching a million times. And so unlike most films, where you start to see where the writer or director cheated or took short cuts in certain places. It takes repeated viewings to begin to grasp the quality of his movies.

And he really just nails the tone in his films. I love the way the characters Kiki encounters are all pretty nice people, but their motivations and behavior are just suspicious enough that it makes you feel uneasy, in the way a 13-year-old girl alone in the world would be. You don't see that kind of subtlety, even in the great Pixar films...or nearly all films, really.

By the way, has anyone seen Only Yesterday? I've heard glowing reviews, but I believe the people I know who've seen it have had to resort to less than legal means to view it. And given that it's an "adult" film, I don't think Disney has any interest in releasing it.

I guess Porco Rosso had a flying pig, and so tricked Disney into releasing it as a children's film, instead of the much more reserved and "adult" film it actually is.

[Captain Schnemo]

Just saw Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind.

Eh.

It had lots of great ideas and good individual scenes, but I think it suffered from trying to condense too much story into a single movie. The characters weren't as interesting as the typical Miyazaki film either. Reminiscent of Castle in the Sky, although I think I liked that one better.

It had a whiff of Tolkien, and I hate all that D&D-type stuff, so that certainly had something to do with my enjoyment of it

I did think it was interesting to see a whole bunch of Miyazaki's signature themes, probably right around the time he was developing them.

Interesting that Disney was shot out of a cannon and came out with Snow White, Dumbo, Bambi and Pinocchio out of the gate, then things went sort of downhill from there. From what I've seen, Miyazaki's early movies seem like practice for the greatness to come.

By the way, I didn't make 2 minutes with the American dub on this one, so I can't comment on its quality, but even considering that the movie lacked the subtlety of Miyazaki's best work, the dub made sure to make everything even less cerebral.

Also the viewing experience wasn't helped by the fact that the DVD I got from the library appears to have been used as a hockey puck, and I had to watch the end of the movie on YouTube.

My first thought was that maybe Miyazaki is better telling small stories, but you can hardly call Spirited Away a quiet little film. I think the tone was just a little distant in this one. There weren't enough quiet scenes to let us really know the characters, although that would have made a long movie even longer.

Absolutely worth seeing, and I'd rather watch it again right now than sit through something like Bee Movie, but not Miyazaki's best by a long shot. I wouldn't recommend this one as a first view of Miyazaki, as he's capable of so much better.

[TikiTikiRoom]

Just gonna throw this out there. Modern Anime is TRASH. (minus a few exceptions). What happened to the good stuff? Suddenly Gundam Wing disappears, Then Cowboy Bebop...and then Trigun. Now all we're left with is Bleach and Fruits Basket. What the hell is this crap? lol

But concerning Miyazaki's films. Princess Mononoke is an all time favorite of mine! Spirited Away comes in 2nd with it's rousing story and very touching score in the backhground.

[DisBeamer]

Just gonna throw this out there. Modern Anime is TRASH. (minus a few exceptions). What happened to the good stuff? Suddenly Gundam Wing disappears, Then Cowboy Bebop...and then Trigun. Now all we're left with is Bleach and Fruits Basket. What the hell is this crap? lol

There's still quite a bit of good stuff out there, it's just harder to find (at least in North America), as it's hard to overcome the cartoon = kid's show feeling here (in my opinion). So more of the 'good' stuff never makes it into distribution wide enough for people to hear about in favor of dreck they can fling at kids on tv. If you cruise the Best Buy anime aisle there's a ton of very watchable, and some very good, stuff there.

A lot of the problem with the stuff we get on tv is the god-awful translations of it too (again, in my opinion, because they sanitize them for kids. Less so with adult swim, but even there a lot of the dubbing is crummy. Not the fault of AS, really, since they don't do it themselves of anything.)

That said, the Fruits Basket manga is a pretty good story. The anime doesn't do it justice since it stops about 1/3 of the way through.

[Croaker]

Naussica...yeah..eh. Castle in the sky was better but reminded me of Speed Racer ...laugh. i've been toying with the idea of Castle Caligisto..something like that...but i keep finding other things to rent.

[Captain Schnemo]

I had the opportunity to see two more Ghibli movies, and I really hit the jackpot. Just when I think I've seen all their tricks, they surprise me and I become even more impressed. I wrote up some notes for my friends, so I'm shamelessly cutting and pasting here, edited for a family-friendly audience...

On first viewing, I thought Whisper of the Heart was just sort of OK, but the magic of the Miyazaki Second Look took hold when I watched it again and I've got to upgrade my review.

There's just something about the way Miyazaki defies my expectations, even when I think I've got a pretty good idea about what the movie is going to be like. Again, the movie ended in a way that I didn't expect at all, and the two or three things I thought I knew about it played out in such completely different ways that I really think 'zaki deserves a special award just for being so unpredictable, even while continually making movies with many similarities.

I can tell I'll be buying this movie for my friends with daughters, once they reach the right age. (Some time after Kiki's Delivery Service.) One cool aspect is that even though a major feature of the plot initially seems sexist, it's actually completely the opposite and this becomes apparent in a very subtle, Miyazakian way. Some of the apparent sexism isn't actually there, it's only a function of the way the story is told from the girl's perspective, and she's made a lot of incorrect assumptions about others. Figuring these out on your own is part of the joy of repeated viewings (or just thinking about it), and makes this a really good movie for kids.

There's one quite overt and powerful line in Japanese (or at least in the words of the Japanese interpreter) near the climax that gets watered down in the dub, but at least the visuals make the point.

There was a scene, however, where the English translation was actually better. It also involved a nice usage of science too, which won bonus points. It then lost those points by being scientifically less accurate in a different place, but overall the dub was not bad. The girl voices were a little too bratty, but the subtleties were merely altered, not blunted in the usual way.

One key aspect that can't be ignored (although it's easier to take the second time through) is that you have to accept that the John Denver song "Country Roads" can be taken on a non-ironic, non-schmaltzy level. This is kind of a lot to ask, but it's surprisingly vital to the story. Clearly US and Japanese pop culture clash here, and it leads to a really weird moment which can't be properly translated in a simple dub.

A nice side effect of the film is that it made me want to walk around. I enjoyed walking to the library to return the DVD, just as the main character enjoyed walking to the library and hoping for little adventures.

I like the way Miyazaki movies get in my head and rattle around for days, altering my perceptions. That's a lot of somethingsomething for two bucks.

Speaking of altering my brain, this week I watched Grave of the Fireflies (a Ghibli film, but not a Miyazaki movie).

I mean, HO LY CRAP.

Spielberg would kill his whole family for the talent to make a movie like this. He's tried and failed to make this movie several times. I can see now why it's on all those "Top 10 Great Movies You Never Want to Watch Again" lists.

Most reviews shallowly note that it's "depressing", but I wouldn't describe that way at all. "Heartbreaking", yes, but it's far too good to be depressing. It sure is deeply affecting...I felt like a different person for days after watching it.

I thought the Mom scene in Bambi was traumatic, but OHMYFREAKINGOD. There is a single unexpected shot early on that sucker punched all the air out of my lungs. Did not see that coming. This movie just crushes you. In a good way, though. Just wow.

I feel sort of weird recommending it to anyone, but it's so good, you really should see it. And it doesn't feel like homework like Schindler's List. And it's a lot shorter. And in color.

There are plenty of scenes which are uplifting in their own way, and the standard Ghibli use of quiet and subtlety are just perfect for what could have been an awful movie in less delicate hands.

The extras on this one were really good too. Ebert's examination of the film is thoughtful and more scholarly than what you usually see in his reviews (although he spends too much time convincing people that anime is not something to be avoided, which isn't really necessary on Disc 2 of something no one is going to accidentally pick up at the Blockbuster), and interviews with the director and the author of the original story were both very insightful. An examination of the main character's motives is particularly good.

Interesting to note that everyone interviewed (even the historians discussing the accuracy and context of the film) teared up when discussing it. Powerful stuff.

These films really make Disney/Pixar movies feel plastic and phoney in comparison. I know that's not really fair, since Ghibli isn't going for that mass appeal market, but I can only imagine what a wonderful world it would be if these kinds of movies could gross $1 billion...

[Croaker]

I had the opportunity to see two more Ghibli movies, and I really the jackpot. Just when I think I've seen all their tricks, they surprise me and I become even more impressed. I wrote up some notes for my friends, so I'm shamelessly cutting and pasting here, edited for a family-friendly audience...

On first viewing, I thought Whisper of the Heart was just sort of OK, but the magic of the Miyazaki Second Look took hold when I watched it again and I've got to upgrade my review.

There's just something about the way Miyazaki defies my expectations, even when I think I've got a pretty good idea about what the movie is going to be like. Again, the movie ended in a way that I didn't expect at all, and the two or three things I thought I knew about it played out in such completely different ways that I really think 'zaki deserves a special award just for being so unpredictable, even while continually making movies with many similarities.

I can tell I'll be buying this movie for my friends with daughters, once they reach the right age. (Some time after Kiki's Delivery Service.) One cool aspect is that even though a major feature of the plot initially seems sexist, it's actually completely the opposite and this becomes apparent in a very subtle, Miyazakian way. Some of the apparent sexism isn't actually there, it's only a function of the way the story is told from the girl's perspective, and she's made a lot of incorrect assumptions about others. Figuring these out on your own is part of the joy of repeated viewings (or just thinking about it), and makes this a really good movie for kids.

There's one quite overt and powerful line in Japanese (or at least in the words of the Japanese interpreter) near the climax that gets watered down in the dub, but at least the visuals make the point.

There was a scene, however, where the English translation was actually better. It also involved a nice usage of science too, which won bonus points. It then lost those points by being scientifically less accurate in a different place, but overall the dub was not bad. The girl voices were a little too bratty, but the subtleties were merely altered, not blunted in the usual way.

One key aspect that can't be ignored (although it's easier to take the second time through) is that you have to accept that the John Denver song "Country Roads" can be taken on a non-ironic, non-schmaltzy level. This is kind of a lot to ask, but it's surprisingly vital to the story. Clearly US and Japanese pop culture clash here, and it leads to a really weird moment which can't be properly translated in a simple dub.

A nice side effect of the film is that it made me want to walk around. I enjoyed walking to the library to return the DVD, just like as the main character enjoyed walking to the library and hoping for little adventures.

I like the way Miyazaki movies get in my head and rattle around for days, altering my perceptions. That's a lot of somethingsomething for two bucks.

Speaking of altering my brain, this week I watched Grave of the Fireflies (a Ghibli film, but not a Miyazaki movie).

I mean, HO LY CRAP.

Spielberg would kill his whole family for the talent to make a movie like this. He's tried and failed to make this movie several times. I can see now why it's on all those "Top 10 Great Movies You Never Want to Watch Again" lists.

Most reviews shallowly note that it's "depressing", but I wouldn't describe that way at all. "Heartbreaking", yes, but it's far too good to be depressing. It sure is deeply affecting...I felt like a different person for days after watching it.

I thought the Mom scene in Bambi was traumatic, but OHMYFREAKINGOD. There is a single unexpected shot early on that sucker punched all the air out of my lungs. Did not see that coming. This movie just crushes you. In a good way, though. Just wow.

I feel sort of weird recommending it to anyone, but it's so good, you really should see it. And it doesn't feel like homework like Schindler's List. And it's a lot shorter. And in color.

There are plenty of scenes which are uplifting in their own way, and the standard Ghibli use of quiet and subtlety are just perfect for what could have been an awful movie in less delicate hands.

The extras on this one were really good too. Ebert's examination of the film is thoughtful and more scholarly than what you usually see in his reviews (although he spends too much time convincing people that anime is not something to be avoided, which isn't really necessary on Disc 2 of something no one is going to accidentally pick up at the Blockbuster), and interviews with the director and the author of the original story were both very insightful. An examination of the main character's motives is particularly good.

Interesting to note that everyone interviewed (even the historians discussing the accuracy and context of the film) teared up when discussing it. Powerful stuff.

These films really make Disney/Pixar movies feel plastic and phoney in comparison. I know that's not really fair, since Ghibli isn't going for that mass appeal market, but I can only imagine what a wonderful world it would be if these kinds of movies could gross $1 billion...

having two girls...Whisper of the Heart was one of their favorites...but i wouldn't recomend it to the younger male generation. laugh.

Grave of the Firefly's...you pretty much nailed it description wise...especially the 'not feeling the same for days after watching it' Knowing its a semi-autobiography makes it more impactful too. the young man in the movie is the actual writer of the story...and only his fate in the end is different, but metaphorically its actual...if that made sense..laugh.

Side Note: the Setsuko Candies in the film can be found at the Japanese Pavillion and we always stop in and buy two tins. my girls even fill it with water when its empty and shake it and drink the semi-flavored water afterwards..i'm sure its nasty but they loved the film.

if you watch grave of the fireflies...have a box of kleenex with you.

[Captain Schnemo]

the Setsuko Candies in the film can be found at the Japanese Pavillion and we always stop in and buy two tins. my girls even fill it with water when its empty and shake it and drink the semi-flavored water afterwards.

That is an awesome story. It's great that Ghibli films exist, but even nicer to hear that there are children like yours who have the intelligence and patience to appreciate them.

[Cheshire Cat]

I saw Spirited Away last night and was amazed by how much I got into the story and was enjoying it. The first two-thirds was just incredible story and animation with a beautiful soundtrack. However, the entire time, the story seemed like it was setting up for something and the ending was kind of a letdown for me.

(Before I go any further, I'll note that I watched it dubbed, so maybe it was dumbed down a bit. I know, I know, I should have watched it with subtitles. I usually watch foreign films with subtitles, I even had a debate with a friend a few weeks ago who wouldn't sit through Pan's Labyrinth because of the subtitles)

The dubbing seemed pretty good though compared to some movies I seemed, the voices matched and everything they said was relevant. I just don't know if the story was changed at all.

Anyway, towards the end of the movie it felt like they were running out of ideas. The whole twin thing seemed like a rather weak ending how she comes out of nowhere and makes everything all better, even though she tried to kill the boy earlier. Then the only reason No-Face was eating people was because the Bathhouse made him crazy? I thought the subplots of the baby and no-face were unnecessary. I thought they were going to end up being important characters in the end of the movie, but they really didn't do much. What was the point of the hair-band they made for the girl anyway?

I'd give it a 7/10 because it was an incredible idea for am movie and the world within it was unlike anything I've ever imagined. Especially after all of today's nearly identical fantasy worlds. Maybe something was lost in translation, or maybe I missed something which is why i can't appreciate it to it's fullest. I'll have to watch it with subtitles eventually.

I think this movie has helped me with my dislike of anime too. The entire time I was watching it I was just pretending it was one of those Disney films with a distinct style to it (i.e. Sleeping Beauty mosaic, 101 Dalmations coloring book, Hercules soft curvy designs). I would definitely try to watch some of Miyazaki's other movies. (Probably either Castle in the Sky or Howl's Moving Castle)

(sorry for not using character names, I just didn't want to spell them incorrectly)

[Captain Schnemo]

Glad you enjoyed it. As you noticed, the Ghibli style (not just the art, but the story structure) is completely different from Disney movies and movies in general. I'd suggest watching it again later and see how your opinion changes.

I often get the sort of feeling you described from watching a Ghibli movie the first time. The pacing, plot, atmosphere, etc. is always not quite what I expected, even if I've read a few reviews or sort of know what the story is about. It's a little jarring to my mind which has been trained by hundreds (thousands?) of movies, the vast majority of which stick to a fairly rigid structure.

We're trained to think to that anything that happens in an animated feature is vitally important to the nuts and bolts of the plot. If we meet a seemingly tangential character, we usually discover that they are a secret villain or will arrive in the nick of time to save the hero or something like that. We're used to almost every scene being like a puzzle piece to a stripped-down machine of a plot, where everything matches the formula and is over quickly so as not to bore the younguns.

Ghibli movies sometimes seem to wander and usually don't proceed in the way (and aren't even about what) you expect when you read the blurb on the video box. This is one of the great joys of watching them unfold. And a lot of what seems extraneous turns out to be some of the most insightful stuff in the films. Some of my favorite moments are bits that seem to be straying from the path, but are actually elements added for the specific purpose of telling another part of the story in a different way. These make the worlds deeper, and really reward subsequent viewings, although I find that they're a little weird to me on the first viewing.

Kids, however, don't have years of preconceived notions about how a film must be, and I think that's one of the subversive messages Miyazaki is trying to get out to the next generation. Much like Dr. Seuss, he teaches that just because something has "always" been done a certain way doesn't mean that it's right and that adults don't have all the answers, although not in the crass and annoying way many Western films do...you know, the grating scenes where the kids have seen the aliens/monster/conspiracy/whatever and the crappy parents don't believe the kids. Miyazaki is more subtle than that.

Also, while nearly every Disney protagonist comes from a broken home, Miyazaki heroes usually have a loving and understanding (though far from perfect) Mom and Dad.

When you pick up a Disney movie you've never seen before, you've got a pretty good idea of what you're in for, and the way things are going to be wrapped up by the end. You never know when a Ghibli movie is going to sneak up and end on you (the ending of Totoro tends to surprise people, just because you can't believe it's really over already) or go on for another half hour after you thought you had the whole thing figured out (like Spirited Away).

Sometimes things don't quite work out, but I've never seen a Ghibli movie that didn't make me think, or that made me sorry I wasted the time to watch it. (I can't say the same about Disney movies...Hunchback left a really bad taste in my mouth, and I don't think I've actually watched one of their movies since.)

By the way, I'd recommend against choosing Howl's Moving Castle next, because I don't think it quite delivers. I've only recently watched it once, and I try not to make judgments about Ghibli films until I've seen them at least twice, but this one didn't really do it for me. I'll try again later and let you know.

I was kind of disappointed with Porco Rosso and Whisper of the Heart the first time I saw them, and now they are very close to the top of my list. I loved Finding Nemo, but if I had to pick my top ten animated movies, there are at least three or four Ghibli films (and a couple Disney films) I'd put ahead of it. (To be fair, I hate musicals, so a Disney movie has to be darn good for me to overlook the characters breaking into song for no reason. I like Snow White because the singing is more organic.)

Also Castle in the Sky is more of a standard adventure movie, and isn't very high on my Ghibli list. That said, you might like it more, since it's more conventional, but I found that it lacks a lot of the beauty and subtlety of the later pictures.

I really can't recommend My Neighbor Totoro enough, even though it is aimed at probably the youngest demographic. It has one of the greatest scenes in movie history and it's nice and short, so you can get a good dose of Ghibli without too much of an investment. I've never talked to anyone about the movie that didn't like it. It's a classic example of a "family" film that is entertaining to every member of the family. I've watched it maybe half a dozen times and it gets better each time. It's also a great Xmas gift for anyone with kids ages 2 and up, since there's a very good chance the parents have never heard of it.

By the way, since my last review, I've seen four movie Ghibli movies, but haven't gotten around to reviewing them properly, just because I don't think any of them were home runs...

Pom Poko was great for so many utterly, utterly unexpected moments, but it seemed a little too steeped in Japanese folklore to me to appreciate it properly. The ending is absolute magic, however, better and more surprising than anything I've seen in any Disney movie. I recommend it to hardcore Ghibli fans, just because there are so many fantastic scenes, but this is not a movie for a Ghibli newbie.

My Neighbors the Yamadas was cute, but didn't have the depth and scope of a typical Ghibli film.

The Cat Returns was a slightly disappointing, not-exactly-sequel to Whisper of the Heart. Decent story, although a bit too conventional. Easily digestible for Western audiences, but I thought it lacked ambition and was a bit too simplistic. A solid children's film, but not something you'd bother to show to an adult, except for a couple pretty awesome scenes.

Howl's Moving Castle (the only Miyazaki film of the four) was the biggest disappointment to me, since it was made by the master. It certainly didn't lack ambition, and it definitely had that Ghibli feeling, but I don't think it was as well-constructed as the usual Miyazaki film. Usually the ending sells me on whatever weird journey Miyazaki has taken me on, but this time I thought it fell a little short. Again, though, I only watched it once, so I reserve the right to come back here a few months from now and proclaim it to be genius. I don't expect that to happen, but you never know.

[Cheshire Cat]

Wow, I never thought about our Hollywood film structures. I guess most Disney movies have an introduction, a problem, and finding the solution to the problem. I am a fan of musicals, but only when the music is a continuation of the story. For instance, if the story wouldn't flow if the song was taken out (Poor Unfortunate Souls). That, and if the music helps reveal something about the character (Part of Your World).

Even though I may not have really understood the Spirited Away, I have been thinking about it all day. I picked up on the themes of greed and/versus nature.

I also re-watched a few scenes when I had a few minutes and I realized the whole no-face issue. It wasn't about him just going crazy when he got into the bathhouse, he was basically taking on the personality of the people around him. He seemed lonely around Sen because she was lonely, he was greedy around the bathhouse people and he was helpful and friendly when he was with the good twin. I guess these are the things I'll pick up on when I rewatch it?

I'm glad I read this thread and (finally, after many months) got to watch one of Miyazaki's movies. It was mesmerizing, although I haven't really figured out why yet.

As far as the next movie, the only reason I came up with those was because I saw the re-release trailer for Castle in the Sky on Spirited Away and it looked interesting. I'm already semi-familiar with the novel of Howl's Moving Castle. Thanks for giving me a little info and your opinion on them, it's what I was hoping for. I'll see if I can find Totoro.

By the way schnemo, do you have a blog or would you ever consider writing one? The way you analyze things and put it into words is amazing. Half the time I find myself going back and rereading some of your posts just because of how well-written and well thought out your ideas are. Not just about film, but the parks too. Your posts sort of remind me of Re-Imagineering, but with a mindful manner and a purpose. You not only explain why something is wrong and how it could be fixed, but how it could be done better. Very Walt-esque.

[Captain Schnemo]

I guess most Disney movies have an introduction, a problem, and finding the solution to the problem.

Well, that's most fiction right there, but a lot of people blame this guy for boring formulaic pictures, although it's not all his fault. His method is reasonably good for tricking unskilled or novice writers into making movies that seem "right". I'm sure you could find a bunch of terrific movies that follow his pattern exactly. (Quoting for those who don't want to click...)

Field's most important contribution has been his articulation of the ideal "three act structure". In this structure, a film must begin with about half an hour of 'setup' information before the protagonist experiences a 'turning point' that gives him or her a goal that must be achieved. Approximately half the movie's running time must then be taken up with the protagonist's struggle to achieve his or her goal: this is the 'Confrontation' period. Field also refers, sometimes, to the 'Midpoint', a more subtle turning point that should happen in the middle (approximately at page 60 of a written screenplay) of the Confrontation, which is often an apparently devastating reversal of the protagonist's fortune. The final quarter of the film depicts a climactic struggle by the protagonist to finally achieve (or not achieve) his or her goal and the aftermath of this struggle.

Anyway, it's not a bad trick to turn a good idea into a movie audiences will sit through, and I've seen enough student films to know that getting experimental before you completely understand the rules is usually disastrous.

But, just like any art form, a master of the form can break just about any rule and still create a masterpiece...but they really have to know what they're doing. If you can't clearly explain why you're breaking the rule, you probably have no business doing so.

Anyway, one great thing about Totoro is that it breaks almost all of the rules, and pretty much any Screenwriting 101 professor would give the script a failing grade. There's no villain, not much that passes for "conflict", the "rule of threes" is completely ignored, etc. You don't have to understand the rules to realize that something weird is going on in the movie, and it creates a great sense of uncertainty, and the feeling that anything can happen. The beginning of the film does not prepare you for the rest of the movie, which doesn't follow any of the paths you think it will, based on the databank of cliches you have stored in your head.

Actually, to varying degrees, Miyazaki almost never has villains, in the classic sense. (A villain park of his would never work!) Most of the "villains" are complex characters who have good reasons for doing what they do, and most turn out to be not at all what you'd expect. As you can see from my avatar, I have an affinity for the morally ambiguous antagonist, so I really like this aspect of Ghibli films.

There's something pure and comforting about evil characters like the Evil Queen in Snow White or Malificent, but those guys are less likely to make you think.

I am a fan of musicals, but only when the music is a continuation of the story.

I don't mind music in a story, I just hate that Broadway style of singing.

Speaking of music, this song runs during the credits of The Cat Returns and I must warn you that it is a toxic earworm. I heard the thing once and for weeks I couldn't get it out of my head, despite the fact that I don't even understand the language. I'm pretty sure it's a ripoff of some song we all know, but it's driving me crazy, and I can't figure out what it is. My friend said it sounds like a Fastball song, and my Mom thinks it sounds like a Petula Clark (!) song, but I think there might be a common root or some other song it's more directly copying. If anyone has any suggestions, please share them!

Even though I may not have really understood the Spirited Away, I have been thinking about it all day.

That's it! That's why I'm willing to spend all this time spamming you poor people about these movies. They stick with you in a way that few things do.

The most obvious example is Grave of the Fireflies, which reminds me of the ad for the horror movie in Crazy People: "It'll f--- you up for life!". OK, maybe not life, but I was definitely a different person for a few days after seeing it, and I think about it all the time. (I also sometimes think of Croaker's story about her daughters' reaction to the film.)

I haven't seen Only Yesterday, which has had no US release, but a friend saw it and said "I think I would be better person if I watched more movies like that". When's the last time you heard anything like that about a movie?

Whisper of the Heart actually changed my behavior, and now I do a lot more walking (particularly to the library). Unfortunately, I've never had quite the adventures that the protagonist did, but you'd be amazed what you can see when your eyes are open.

I'm glad I read this thread and (finally, after many months) got to watch one of Miyazaki's movies.

I'm really glad you enjoyed it. It's so rare that I run into things of superlative quality, that I feel compelled to share them with as many people as I can (and Disney park fans seem to be tuned into quality!).

I'll see if I can find Totoro.

That should be an easy one to find. Just remember to look under M and not T.

By the way schnemo, do you have a blog or would you ever consider writing one? The way you analyze things and put it into words is amazing.

Nah, I'm too lazy to do anything on a regular schedule. I appreciate your comments, though. I do kind of cheat in that I take a few passes at most things I write. I know most people just sort of brain dump on the forum and move on (which is a much more reasonable use of their spare time!).

I just happen to like writing (for fun, but not under the gun) and I really like trying to crystallize my ideas about things. The Internet has helped me figure out why I liked WDW so much, and ultimately made me realize that Walt Disney isn't a brand like Betty Crocker, he was a once-in-a-lifetime unparalleled genius who doesn't get the respect or understanding he deserves.

[Cheshire Cat]

Actually, to varying degrees, Miyazaki almost never has villains, in the classic sense.

That's it! That's why this movie has been teasing my brain! This whole time, I've been trying to point a finger and figure out who the villain in the movie was, but there really was no villain. They were just all different characters with different ego levels, personalities and motives, but every character proved that there was something good in them. That's why the story seemed realistic, they were like real people. No real person is completely evil and neither were any of the characters.

It's simplistically amazing that Miyazaki could tell a compelling story without a villain. Almost ironic.

Thinking about what you said further, I think those kinds of stories are pretty much my favorites too. 20,000 Leagues under the Sea and Phantom of the Opera are two of my favorite novels.

I think this is why the PIXAR films are so successful also. While a few of them do have very prominent villains, most PIXAR films cast the villain as a minor character simply to challenge the "good guys" at the end or they don't have a villain at all. (Toy Story, Cars and Finding Nemo would be my key examples)

[Captain Schnemo]

No real person is completely evil and neither were any of the characters.

Sometimes Miyazaki makes me laugh, when I feel him purposely messing with the audience. The first time you meet the sort-of antagonist in Porco Rosso, you figure he's going to be the classic stereotypical ugly American, but as the movie progresses you realize he's kind of a charming goofball. He's at least as talented as the hero and he operates under similar set of moral values. I'll bet Miyazaki could make a darn good movie from that character's perspective and he'd be just as heroic.

Good point about the Pixar films. The main thing I've noticed about them is that they tend to be about adults (or at least characters with adult personalities) while Disney movies are usually about kids or teens. It makes them even more accessible to an adult audience, but still allows kids and adults to react to same story elements. The moral is that a strong story can entertain everyone.

Shrek and similar Dreamworks movies, on the other hand, are full of references and behavior kids don't really understand. Half the time, they're probably only laughing because their parents are.

Back to Spirited Away, I also like the way it's never entirely clear what Chihiro is supposed to do. When we find she needs to get a job, we think, "Oh, that's what this movie is about! She'll get a job and then save the day." But then she goes and does that a few minutes later, and suddenly it's again unclear what needs to be done. This is a lot more like life, and a more valuable life lesson than "find the magic dingus" or "defeat the evil whateverbeast".

Ultimately, what she needs to do is to become a better, more thoughtful and open-minded, and less selfish person (although the movie isn't so crass as to state this explicitly). That is an awesome stealth message.

[DisBeamer]

Speaking of music, this song runs during the credits of The Cat Returns and I must warn you that it is a toxic earworm. I heard the thing once and for weeks I couldn't get it out of my head, despite the fact that I don't even understand the language. I'm pretty sure it's a ripoff of some song we all know, but it's driving me crazy, and I can't figure out what it is. My friend said it sounds like a Fastball song, and my Mom thinks it sounds like a Petula Clark (!) song, but I think there might be a common root or some other song it's more directly copying. If anyone has any suggestions, please share them!

You may have already looked it up, but the song's by Tsuji Ayano, a j-pop artist known for her work with the ukulele. (Yes, ukulele). This site has the words (romaji and a loose english translation), as well as the 'real' music video for the song, which is more pop-y and less ukulele-y in its actual incarnation than in the version used for the end titles song.

I asked around to a variety of anime-watching friends but no one could pinpoint a song they thought it was copying or referencing. To me it just sounds generically pop/late disco era catchy, especially in the non-Cat Returns version. It does kinda remind me of the Kiki's Delivery Service theme, though. Not a copy, obviously, but similarly bouncy.

Edit: Aaand now I have the song stuck in my head.