Disney to Expand to Stand-Alone Hotels and Parks?

CDAbleson · Post by **CDAbleson** » Feb Tue 20, 2007 9:43 am

I think the Regional Watrpark Idea is quite good....There are loads of Waterparks out there, but they all lack the Disney Theming......Could be real $$$ maker

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Feb Wed 21, 2007 7:10 am

bdinger wrote:Will they be able to keep up a level of quality that everyone expects from Disney with resorts spread out across the country?

They can't even sustain "Disney quality" within the existing parks! This would certainly be bad news in terms of quality, and would certainly do even more to destroy the "magic", in the way that Disney Stores have.

But will it make money? If so, I don't think any of the above matters.

Disneys America · Post by **Disneys America** » Mar Wed 07, 2007 12:04 pm

I think they are looking at the success of properties like the Great Wolf/Great Bear Lodges and knowing they can do equally as well.

TikiTikiRoom · Post by **TikiTikiRoom** » Mar Wed 07, 2007 12:31 pm

these ideas that Disney keeps having are very poor ones and I don't approve. Now mind you i'm not the big-cheese in all of this, I just dont think it's a very good idea where Disney's concerned. Like someone said earlier it would totally take away from all the magic that comes in visiting a far away park like WDW or DL. I'd much rather go to WDW than a disney park/resort that's 10 miles away from my house. It may cost more money to travel farther, but I still think it's worth it to cough up a little extra money to go down south.

Post by **rdeacon** » Jun Tue 19, 2007 12:31 pm

Kevin Yee has posted a story about Disney's possible plan to expand the Disney Experience.

http://miceage.com/kevinyee/ky061907a.htm

Rich

netslave · Post by **netslave** » Jun Mon 25, 2007 9:53 am

I think this is a waste of time and money. Disney is getting a little too ambitious with this idea I think. WDW is not hurting for people, but it is hurting for more capacity. Disney themed hotels might be fun, but I would never opt for 1/20th of the WDW resort for 1/4 of the cost. It's a rip off.

Why not build a 5th park at WDW or build a new Magic Kingdom in North America? That would cut down on the transportation costs for middle America and possibly draw more people to a TRUE Disney experience.

ldzny · Post by **ldzny** » Jun Mon 25, 2007 10:08 am

I agree, I'd rather see them spend money on expanding Disneyland. Buy up some of the surround hotels, etc... Maybe put in Disney Vacation Club properties...

JWG · Post by **JWG** » Jun Mon 25, 2007 1:30 pm

This makes sense folks. Disney wants to expand its earning potential. A 5th gate only marginally expands profits. It helps us guests as we can spread out and spend less time in a line, but it doesn't add a lot of income to the Disney enterprise.

Sub-pockets of Disney entertainment that wet the appetite and create a thought process about planning the next big trip to WDW or DL will potentially create profits. A HUGE indoor water park/hotel opened a year ago across from the Mall of America here in MN. They charge deluxe resort rates for the hotel and beyond that crazy high admission prices for the water park if you're not a guest of the hotel. Slap the Disney name on there, add a couple $$ in premium name recognition and you have a money maker.

Right, wrong, good, bad, like it or hate it... Its a money-making idea if done right.

netslave · Post by **netslave** » Jun Mon 25, 2007 3:44 pm

A 5th gate only marginally expands profits

How so? Theoretically, if you expand the general capacity at the parks by 25% or so, and build more hotels to match the amount of people that can fit in the parks, you'd end up with a good return. True there's a big start up cost, but there would also be just as big of a start up cost in building multiple, smaller hotels. In fact, it might cost more.

So for WDW, for a family of 4 to be able to go on a vacation for $1500 minus transportation, how much would they save to go to a mere hotel with a water slide? I'd pick the entertainment mecca that is WDW over a cheap Vegas style hotel/attaction.

I think that the reason the new hotel at the Mall of America is doing so well is because the Mall is a tourist attraction by itself and the hotel adds to it. If you just park some "Disney" hotels all over the US, I'm not sure it'll be more profitable than a 5th park @ WDW.

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Jun Mon 25, 2007 4:48 pm

I hope Disney looks at Coney Island!! There is a company putting over a $100 millions dollars into Coney this winter. There have been rumors forever about Disney putting money there. It's seems like the perfect urban venue for them. I'll keep it my prayers!

JWG · Post by **JWG** » Jun Mon 25, 2007 4:52 pm

netslave wrote:
A 5th gate only marginally expands profits
How so? Theoretically, if you expand the general capacity at the parks by 25% or so, and build more hotels to match the amount of people that can fit in the parks, you'd end up with a good return. True there's a big start up cost, but there would also be just as big of a start up cost in building multiple, smaller hotels. In fact, it might cost more.

So for WDW, for a family of 4 to be able to go on a vacation for $1500 minus transportation, how much would they save to go to a mere hotel with a water slide? I'd pick the entertainment mecca that is WDW over a cheap Vegas style hotel/attaction.

I think that the reason the new hotel at the Mall of America is doing so well is because the Mall is a tourist attraction by itself and the hotel adds to it. If you just park some "Disney" hotels all over the US, I'm not sure it'll be more profitable than a 5th park @ WDW.

True, location is critical in these stand alones (proven by Disney Quest in Chicago). Certainly not good everywhere.

My assumption (and I admit, its an assumption) is that a 5th gate will not add significant revenue because rarely to the parks hit their capacity (less major holidays). I have yet to visit WDW when a park closed due to capacity and only hear about it happening 1-2 times a year. Therefore, potential guests are not being turned away and Disney is not "losing" guests to closed doors.

A 5th gate, in my mind, would not significantly change travel plants for a family. Most families (not local) plan a longer trip because of all that Disney offers. I don't think a 5th gate will lengthen their stay significantly. If most guests travel for a 5-7+ day vacation, they already have 1 day per gate with a 5th added. For example, my trips are either 5-7 days in length or 1-2. We either vist all parks or hit the highlights of our favorite parks. A 5th gate won't change that. If the average vacation is a week, Disney is already too big to do everything in that timeframe and suggesting that the average family can afford to extend their vacation (both due to cost and vacation time) is dangerous.

I do think a 5th gate would create an initial attendance spike by those infrequent but close guests who just want to see the new gate. I do not think it would alter the number of AP holders or the vacation strategy of travelers already spending their entire vacation at Disney.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a 5th gate (once they fix Epcot and finish MGM and AK). Anything that keeps the queue lines down and offers variety and great entertainment I'm all for.

Looking at dollars and cents, I just (and this is just an opinion) feel Disney sees a bigger return on introducing the taste for Disney around the country and having an avenue to advertise their bigger vacation opportunities (WDW and DL) while making a profit.

How many people stay at a hotel based on its affiliation when they travel? "I only stay at Marriott properties" or "I'll only stay at a Holiday Inn." I think Disney sees the potential of its name to create brand loyalty and then sees the opportunity to also remind them that, hey, you should come to Florida/California and spend more time with us. We have lots more to do there.

Its not about getting people to travel to these non-park resorts. Its about getting people to choose to stay there because they've traveled to that location for something else (or live close by).

netslave · Post by **netslave** » Jun Tue 26, 2007 8:14 am

Its not about getting people to travel to these non-park resorts. Its about getting people to choose to stay there because they've traveled to that location for something else (or live close by).

I see what you mean. It'd would be something like a Disney hotel at the Grand Canyon, or one at Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco.

My worry is that it will divert too much money from the parks, and that it wouldn't be successful.

JWG · Post by **JWG** » Jun Tue 26, 2007 10:42 am

netslave wrote: I see what you mean. It'd would be something like a Disney hotel at the Grand Canyon, or one at Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco.

My worry is that it will divert too much money from the parks, and that it wouldn't be successful.

Valid. Though if they follow the Disney Quest model, they're meant to operate independently and generate their own revenue to operate. We'll see what happens, I'm in the skeptical boat myself, but you never know.

Jacca5660 · Post by **Jacca5660** » Jun Tue 26, 2007 2:33 pm

JWG wrote:
netslave wrote:
A 5th gate only marginally expands profits
How so? Theoretically, if you expand the general capacity at the parks by 25% or so, and build more hotels to match the amount of people that can fit in the parks, you'd end up with a good return. True there's a big start up cost, but there would also be just as big of a start up cost in building multiple, smaller hotels. In fact, it might cost more.

So for WDW, for a family of 4 to be able to go on a vacation for $1500 minus transportation, how much would they save to go to a mere hotel with a water slide? I'd pick the entertainment mecca that is WDW over a cheap Vegas style hotel/attaction.

I think that the reason the new hotel at the Mall of America is doing so well is because the Mall is a tourist attraction by itself and the hotel adds to it. If you just park some "Disney" hotels all over the US, I'm not sure it'll be more profitable than a 5th park @ WDW.
True, location is critical in these stand alones (proven by Disney Quest in Chicago). Certainly not good everywhere.

My assumption (and I admit, its an assumption) is that a 5th gate will not add significant revenue because rarely to the parks hit their capacity (less major holidays). I have yet to visit WDW when a park closed due to capacity and only hear about it happening 1-2 times a year. Therefore, potential guests are not being turned away and Disney is not "losing" guests to closed doors.

A 5th gate, in my mind, would not significantly change travel plants for a family. Most families (not local) plan a longer trip because of all that Disney offers. I don't think a 5th gate will lengthen their stay significantly. If most guests travel for a 5-7+ day vacation, they already have 1 day per gate with a 5th added. For example, my trips are either 5-7 days in length or 1-2. We either vist all parks or hit the highlights of our favorite parks. A 5th gate won't change that. If the average vacation is a week, Disney is already too big to do everything in that timeframe and suggesting that the average family can afford to extend their vacation (both due to cost and vacation time) is dangerous.

I do think a 5th gate would create an initial attendance spike by those infrequent but close guests who just want to see the new gate. I do not think it would alter the number of AP holders or the vacation strategy of travelers already spending their entire vacation at Disney.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a 5th gate (once they fix Epcot and finish MGM and AK). Anything that keeps the queue lines down and offers variety and great entertainment I'm all for.

Looking at dollars and cents, I just (and this is just an opinion) feel Disney sees a bigger return on introducing the taste for Disney around the country and having an avenue to advertise their bigger vacation opportunities (WDW and DL) while making a profit.

How many people stay at a hotel based on its affiliation when they travel? "I only stay at Marriott properties" or "I'll only stay at a Holiday Inn." I think Disney sees the potential of its name to create brand loyalty and then sees the opportunity to also remind them that, hey, you should come to Florida/California and spend more time with us. We have lots more to do there.

Its not about getting people to travel to these non-park resorts. Its about getting people to choose to stay there because they've traveled to that location for something else (or live close by).

I disagree on just part of this. A lot of people stay on property and still find time to go to universal, IOA, and Sea World. I believe there is plenty of reason for Disney to have a 5th park. My 2 DS are now teens, this forces us to spend at least one or two days at IOA just for (As my older DS puts it. ) the REAL roller coasters.

If you keep Disney in a vacuum, all you say is valid. Remember it's Orlando, not a vacuum.
My DW think you hit your mark and Disney should build out what they have.

Croaker · Post by **Croaker** » Jun Tue 26, 2007 5:38 pm

When we visited the park in 06' the bus driver was giving us a rumor that disney was looking to compete with "Islands of Adventure" by opening a 5th park that would focus on thrill rides. while i think the idea is great i would rather see them spend the money on putting the thrill rides in the already existing parks. maybe add thrill rides to epcot via the showcase's. i'm not an engineer so i'm sure if it would even be plausable...but it is just a rumor so why not dream.

then again...a 5th park would be awesome!