Tomorrowland, er um Pixarland

[danimal3114u]

Upon reading this discussion, I saw that someone wrote, "Disney is human and makes mistakes" or something along those lines. That may be true of today's Disney, but back in the Walt era and pre-Esiner era, everything they made had to be perfect. The company wouldn't build or make anything that wasn't perfect.

That is definitely not the case, for Disneyland especially. Many people within Disney felt that opening day (and the first months) of Disneyland was almost an unmitigated disaster, with water fountains not working, streets melting, unfinished areas of the park, and not enough capacity for the people the came to the park. Walt Disney has made plenty of mistakes throughout his life and with the park, but they have been able to learn from them. Thinking that Disney never made any mistakes and that everything they endeavored to do is short sighted and incredibly revisionist.
In fact, Disney has said multiple times that fixing his previous mistakes is what kept him going and made him always want to improve. If everything in the park was perfect, Disneyland would not be what it was today.
"Whenever I go on a ride, I'm always thinking of what's wrong with the thing and how it can be improved." - Walt Disney
"Don't tell me about the problems - I make the problems." —Walt Disney
"My fun is working on a project and solving the problems." —Walt Disney

It's amazing you still love Disney, I know some people that have been fried by Disney and the last thing they want to do with their off hours are go back as a guest

I'm a former cast member as well, as is my wife and we both still love Disney. They're not very good to the cast members (although better than companies anywhere near their size), and that is an area that needs a lot of improvement (they'll attract better cast members and be able to keep the good ones if they do, which will help the parks out immensely). But working there didn't change my opinion about the park at all. I think that you have to understand that things have changed since Walt was there and I can’t imagine going into any job with a corporation of that size without expectations.
BUT the parks are still a magical place to have fun. There are still amazing attractions and personal touches that are there from Walt's time and from recent times as well. There are still really great cast members that make sure that everyone they come into contact with has a great day. I can't really understand why anyone would completely change their opinion about Disney based on being fired (especially if it was due to performance issues).

[Captain Schnemo]

I agree that there were plenty of mistakes and misfires in the past, but the thing that most bothers me is stuff that is glaringly obviously wrong and criminally easy to avoid. If you ask a six-year-old kid what's wrong with monsters in Tomorrowland, he can give you the answer in seconds.

That's clearly not a mistake, that's just not giving a fig about theming and your audience. I don't need to go down the laundry list of things they've done in Epcot which are quite obviously wrong after a second's thought.

I also agree that there are serious maintenance problems at WDW. The burnt-out bulbs thing sounds trivial, but it's symbolic of all the problems, particularly since it used to be a point of pride with Disney. They'd brag about how the bad lights were always immediately replaced (sometimes before they even burnt out), how the paint was always fresh, the streets and garbage cans clean and clear... Disney purposely drew attention to all these things, and now they've purposely decided that those things aren't all that important.

That joke at HISTA (about a Disney guy sweeping up shrunken people) doesn't even work any more, because the speed at which garbage is picked up off the ground is no longer legendary.

I take a long-term view of things, so I actually am not as upset about the poor maintenance as the thematic issues. While unlikely, it is always possible that a new person will be put in charge who takes maintenance seriously, and that's not all that hard to do right. It just takes a lot of resources. It's also not difficult to understand what needs to be done to fix the situation (ie, pick up the friggin' trash already).

The thematic problems are much more difficult to fix. A new manager can't make the call to move the Nemo dark ride from Future World to Fantasyland. He can't tell Imagineers to stop using the same tired themes over and over again. He can't jump up and down and shout and point at the word "Future" in the Future World sign when they begin construction on Test Track (well, he can, but it would do no good).

It's all part of the larger problem of Disney, as a corporation, losing faith in its own product and refusing to take itself seriously. Someone put the marketeers in control and until that changes, we're all going to pay.

[yodiwan1]

Jacca5660 wrote:
It's amazing you still love Disney, I know some people that have been fried by Disney and the last thing they want to do with their off hours are go back as a guest

I tend to look at justa moron firing me and not a real Disney cast member. The guy was new, on a power trip, and had to make examples of the college kids since they were making cut backs. Don't forget it was right after 9/11

the speed at which garbage is picked up off the ground is no longer legendary.

ok, now I do take this a bit personally, and I do feel you are very wrong here. As a former custodial member, and I know for a fact that a few people that post here are still in custodial, we work/ed our asses off to clean that place. In fact, the night they let me go, i almost passed out from looking down so much sweeping all of frontierland. Maybe if guests weren't such pigs half the time we'd be able tog et it up quicker, but when you have 4-5 people sweeping for a few thousand not everything can be picked up right away. I once had a kids look at me, smile, then pour his melted ice cream right on the floor...did i clean it up? no, i walked up to hsi mother, told her what happened, and watched as she made him clean it up and apologize...i wish more parents were like that!!!

[Captain Schnemo]

...when you have 4-5 people sweeping for a few thousand not everything can be picked up right away.

Then we agree. As I said, it's problem of resources. If you had more fellow employees helping you out, the task wouldn't seem to impossible.

It seriously used to be a game to see if a piece of popcorn that fell on the sidewalk would be more quickly snapped up by a maintenance worker or a sparrow. I'm not saying the streets are filthy, but things are not as they used to be, and that's all the more noticeable because, as I said, Disney used to make a point of boasting about their superior maintenance.

[yodiwan1]

it would be great to have 10-15 people sweeping, but that would look horrible, guests dont want to be overwhelmed by custodians...do you ever have anything positive to say about Disney? I read your post in the logo thread and you couldnt even say anything nice about that?

[Jacca5660]

The thematic problems are much more difficult to fix. A new manager can't make the call to move the Nemo dark ride from Future World to Fantasyland. He can't tell Imagineers to stop using the same tired themes over and over again. He can't jump up and down and shout and point at the word "Future" in the Future World sign when they begin construction on Test Track (well, he can, but it would do no good).

It's all part of the larger problem of Disney, as a corporation, losing faith in its own product and refusing to take itself seriously. Someone put the marketeers in control and until that changes, we're all going to pay.

I know some look at what's being said here and think it's much to do about nothing. With the previous management's "accountants run the company mantra", cost was the overwhelming concern. Before anything was done, someone ran a spread sheet and analyzed the money. For a long time (well over a decade) Disney wasn't about the product and surely had nothing to do with Imagineering. Just look at some of the direct to video and most if not all of (insert movie title) 1,2,3 and so on versions of movies that have been put out on the market. It was like they were saying "original ideas cost to much". YES, theming cost to much to them.
So much of the "Hey this movie is popular now, let's capitalize on it. Who cares about the long term, it'll be somebody else's problem!" attitude. Really hurt what Disney is. Look at the parking lot carnival at the AK. Disney actually went out a got off the shelf rides you can find several times a year in your local Kmart parking lot! We have suffered for a long time.
It has been an insidious virus that ran through management. I mean look at what it's going to cost to get CA up to a Disney standards.
I feel, hope and pray that the new blood at Disney will get it back on track. I also understand that after years and years of management milking Disney like a cash cow, IT"S GOING TO TAKE TIME! Hopefully Disney is moving back to their own high standards. They seem to being showing signs of moving in that direction.

it would be great to have 10-15 people sweeping, but that would look horrible, guests dont want to be overwhelmed by custodians...do you ever have anything positive to say about Disney? I read your post in the logo thread and you couldnt even say anything nice about that?

You are missing the point. It's not about "do you ever have anything positive to say about Disney?". It's a deep, life long love of Disney that's driving what's being said here. For a long time Disney didn't care anything about people like us. But it's because of what you're reading here and on many other Disney boards, that things are changing

[yodiwan1]

i am not missing the point, i knoiw changes need to be made, what I really meant was a lot of us are psoting about the changes, but we also talk about whats going on thats right with the parks.It seems that captain shnemo never has anything at all good to day. This isn't just in this thread, i meant in others as well. Please captain, just tell us one thing you actually like so I know you don't dislike everything disney has done? I mean, and this si not to make fu of your looks cause i don't knwo what you look like, but the way your attitude is towards things makes me thinnk you havea scowl on your face like your avatar has. Please do not take that part the wrong way.

[Jacca5660]

i am not missing the point, i knoiw changes need to be made, what I really meant was a lot of us are psoting about the changes, but we also talk about whats going on thats right with the parks.It seems that captain shnemo never has anything at all good to day. This isn't just in this thread, i meant in others as well. Please captain, just tell us one thing you actually like so I know you don't dislike everything disney has done?

AH!! I thought you were just talking about this thread. I'll have to defer to what you have seen on other post.

[Captain Schnemo]

Whether or not I only say negative things (which I clearly don't, and I'll let yodi figure how to use the Search function on his own), the point of discussion is to address the ideas themselves.

Nevertheless, as Jacca said, my comments come from being an admirer of Disney when things were much better. You can choose to speak up when you see something wrong or you can pretend it doesn't exist, but only one of those two choices has the potential to make anything better.

I don't claim that my personal ramblings on the Internet have had any impact on the Disney company directly, but I do think the process of opening people's eyes and the dull roar of others like me who have begun to speak have at least been considered by Disney. I thank all the CMs that speak up where they've seen problems and choose not to look the other way, even when it's unpopular. Where all this gets us remains to be seen, but it can't hurt.

If you turned the clock back 20 years and told me that I'd ever be disgusted with WDW, I'd have thought you were insane. Nothing in my youth was more directly associated with pure goodness in the face of the powerful forces of greed and ignorance than Walt Disney. A simple plastic bag with a Disney logo on it suddenly became inexplicably valuable and worth saving. I went to WDW at least once a year, every year, for over 25 years.

The beauty of WDW and so many other of Walt's projects was how superlative the quality was, simply because the creators took pride in their work. Honestly, it's pretty easy to make a film that kids will like or create an amusement park that makes money where people are reasonably entertained.

That wasn't what interested me in Disney products. It was the fact that they'd go the extra mile. That was the attraction. Once Disney made it clear that they weren't so interested in quality, intelligence, or the legacy of Walt's philosophy, I was no longer interested in what they were selling.

Now, you can just write me off as a loon, and most people did for quite some time (until they hit their own personal breaking point, and suddenly the things I was complaining about had meaning for them), but I've got Walt on my side (for what that's worth). When I bitch about the theming, I don't need to do anything other than point at the plaques in the parks we're all talking about for justification.

For me, I'm only being slightly melodramatic when I say watching WDW recently has been like watching a friend kill himself on heroin. I want to help, but there's really only so much you can do. The one thing that is definitely not going to help is to pretend that nothing's wrong.

[Jacca5660]

I don't claim that my personal ramblings on the Internet have had any impact on the Disney company directly, but I do think the process of opening people's eyes and the dull roar of others like me who have begun to speak have at least been considered by Disney.

From the way I look at it is: Our comments do have an impact!! Do people realize how much company's pay for the feed back Disney gets for free., MILLIONS and MILLIONS. On our boards and so many others out there (SUB'S IS THE BEST!) people react immediately to what Disney does. I know from experience (My DW is a Mod on WDWINFO and is a contributor big time on the moose lodge) that they pay people to read the boards and they do take notice. Don't sell yourself short. The big MOUSE is watching us and does take notice!

[yodiwan1]

For me, I'm only being slightly melodramatic when I say watching WDW recently has been like watching a friend kill himself on heroin. I want to help, but there's really only so much you can do. The one thing that is definitely not going to help is to pretend that nothing's wrong.

You say disney's themeing is wrong, yet you compare what si happening at WDW to this??? you couldn't be farther off if you tried.

[Jacca5660]

I'm a Gator fan that lives in Tennessee. This debate is getting as good as some of those that I've had with Vols fans!!

[yodiwan1]

your gators are going to destroy my owls!!!!

[Jacca5660]

Don't blame the Gators...Blame the BCS!

[rdeacon]

I think its clear to most people that towards the end of Eisner's rein that Disney completely lost focus on what was important and just seemed to look at the bottom line not caring about the path they were creating.

I don't want to complete Eisner bash here, he did have a great influence and did create a lot of good, but towards the end, there were just so many bad choices.

Now under Iger they do seem to be focusing efforts to right the ship. But jacca is right, this is not an overnight process and will take time and a lot of resources. I think we have to look at the encouraging signs, like the fact the Nemo Submarine Ride in DL was like way over budget, not from delays but cause Lasseter was not happy and made the right changes budget be darn. Its also refreshing that Disney realizes that DCA is a wreck and has committed 1.1B, yes billion to fixing the park. I didn't see that happen pre-Iger.

Will everything be perfect, no that's just silly. It will never be perfect, but having Disney strive for perfection is a the point. They need to restore the Disney philosophy that made Disney synonymous with quality.

Rich