Tomorrowland, er um Pixarland

FlatlandMounty · Post by **FlatlandMounty** » Jun Wed 06, 2007 11:46 pm

Cost effective, yes, but considering how few people ride th boat ride...It was probably either automate it or close it.

DisBeamer · Post by **DisBeamer** » Jun Thu 07, 2007 2:10 am

The ongoing discussion of the edutainment factor of Epcot reminds me of a conversation I had a while back with a friend on mine (who was working in a travel agency call center at the time). Now, my friend isn't stupid by any stretch of the imagination, and doesn't 'dislike learning' (for lack of a less dorky term..), but she was telling me how she was looking up details about Epcot for a caller and how it looked "so incredibly boring" (she's never been to WDW). This is after Test Track and Mission: Space and Soarin' had been added, mind you, and during the time they were hyping Soarin' and the Crush the turtle thing quite a bit.

It seems to me that Epcot is kind of in a weird limbo now; they don't want to stick to the edutainment theme because (in theory) people want to be 'thrilled', but they can't shake the 'eww boring' stigma the park seems to have always had, particularly with people who are unfamiliar with it. It's incredibly depressing to think they're making all these changes not in keeping with the original(ish) idea of the park, and people are -still- looking at it and thinking 'eww boring'.

Cheshire Cat wrote:It just dawned on me that if WDW had waited a little longer before scrapping 20k, nemo would fit perfectly into the WDW fantasyland lagoon theme-wise and we could still have the original living seas...

It's funny (not in the ha ha sense); for the longest time I thought they'd decided to close 20k because of a law in Florida that would require them to 'bring it up to code' in terms of making it accessible for handicapped visitors - I heard that story at the time it closed. So I kinda cut them slack for just letting it go to seed as I imagine that would have been a really big change to the subs (and probably ride mechanics to accommodate the subs, and so on).

But looking around on ye olde internet now, I can't find any evidence that it's true. So ... I guess I'll go back to being irritated it closed.

Captain Schnemo · Post by **Captain Schnemo** » Jun Thu 07, 2007 1:47 pm

That's interesting. Any non-Castle-based park would kill for Epcot's attendance numbers, so "eww boring" has clearly been working out just fine for them. Looks like all they're doing now is offending the base. Well, not enough to matter, of course.

I think a large portion of the blame can be attributed to Disney flat out refusing to advertise the park in a way that isn't Magic Kingdom 2.0, without any acknowledgement of what made Epcot popular in the first place. Disney is so embarrassed about itself lately.

I believe the 20K lagoon was bulldozed because it was expensive to maintain. Disneyland seems to have overcome the handicapped issue, so that's not a decent excuse, even if it is based in fact.

Even in the years after Nautili stopped cruising the lagoon, it still looked so beautiful...

Post by **js3901** » Jun Thu 07, 2007 3:32 pm

FlatlandMounty wrote:Cost effective, yes, but considering how few people ride th boat ride...It was probably either automate it or close it.

I dunno... the boats were full, and the line a fairly decent length when we were there in december. and that was the first week, which is one of the slowest times of the year...

I believe the 20K lagoon was bulldozed because it was expensive to maintain. Disneyland seems to have overcome the handicapped issue, so that's not a decent excuse, even if it is based in fact.

Even in the years after Nautili stopped cruising the lagoon, it still looked so beautiful...

I managed to find some pictures (not sure where) of the subs where they are now (condition wise and such). they're on land, in some remote corner of the property, just rotting away.. so sad.

and I agree that the lagoon was beautiful even without the subs going around. that area has so gone to waste

DisBeamer · Post by **DisBeamer** » Jun Thu 07, 2007 10:22 pm

Captain Schnemo wrote:I think a large portion of the blame can be attributed to Disney flat out refusing to advertise the park in a way that isn't Magic Kingdom 2.0, without any acknowledgement of what made Epcot popular in the first place. Disney is so embarrassed about itself lately.

Well put. I can't fathom how it makes good business sense to make changes to a park that seem to irritate a portion of the people who were already attending it, not really make any difference to the overall number of attendees (as far as I know), and not attract new people who were already turned off by the 'eww boring'. If the numbers were already good, then why make big changes when there were already people who were happy with the edutainment-y feel? And more than that, why continue along that path when the changes (Test Track, then Mission: Space, and so on) didn't seem to be wooing over those people who were already turned off by the 'boring stigma'? They must have market research to tell them 'Hey those people who thought it was boring and didn't want to go? They still think that'. Maybe I'm just going wrong in trying to make sense of their decision making processes of late...

js3901 wrote:I managed to find some pictures (not sure where) of the subs where they are now (condition wise and such). they're on land, in some remote corner of the property, just rotting away.. so sad.

You can see them - or something that looks suspiciously like them - on Google Earth, if you have that installed. Also on Wikimapia, which uses the same images I guess. There's a kind of boneyard just northeast of the MK with some very sub-looking-things lying around.

FlatlandMounty · Post by **FlatlandMounty** » Jun Thu 07, 2007 10:44 pm

New bit at the MILF. One of the monsters now plays a recording of how to be a better comdian, and what follows is a series of micues and its actually funny.

Post by **js3901** » Jun Thu 07, 2007 10:44 pm

these were ground views, like someone was standing right next to/in the subs. I found 5 pictures total - 4 of them from the boneyard, and one from the heyday of the 20k leagues lagoon...

Magique · Post by **Magique** » Jun Thu 07, 2007 10:57 pm

Wow. Those pictures are amazing! They just store them like that? Is it smart to leave them out in the open, exposing them to the elements?

DisBeamer · Post by **DisBeamer** » Jun Thu 07, 2007 11:13 pm

Oooh. Those are cool pictures (in a sad way - like looking at a ghost town..). Judging by the surroundings, I think that confirms the things I thought were the subs on Google Earth are really them, then. Poor things, sitting right on the shore of Bay Lake. I wonder if they miss the water... I guess if they don't intend to use them again, they don't have to worry about them being exposed.

*does some MS Paint cut and paste during lunch break* Excuse the crappy arrow/circle/writing. I don't have anything better at work. But anyway, here's a wide shot for a location ref with respect to the MK and a close up of the circled area.

TheGreatGonzo · Post by **TheGreatGonzo** » Jun Fri 08, 2007 6:49 am

Interesting!!! In your satelite view, two seem to be missing. In the aerial picture earlier there are 12 and in the satelite view there are only 10.

Post by **js3901** » Jun Fri 08, 2007 8:55 am

hmm... weird. 2 of the ones in the aerial shots that I posted have their hatches open, maybe those were taken and put on another part of the property. or maybe sold in an auction or something like that. They usually do that with refurbed/removed ride cars and props...

Post by **Dr. Ravenscroft** » Jun Fri 08, 2007 1:52 pm

Great pictures, but sad end to those wonderful subs. I always loved them and how they looked. Now that they are Mothballed they don't look so great. I hope a collector is able to get their hands on some if not all of them and restores them. They deserve better than this.

DisBeamer · Post by **DisBeamer** » Jun Fri 08, 2007 4:33 pm

I was speculating about what happened to the two missing subs later last night. It's hard to tell which order they Google images and the ground images were taken; some of the overhead shots Google has can be pretty old (though most aren't). I think it's the two on the far left end in the overhead shot that were 'taken', judging by the relative positions of the rest of 'em. I guess those would have been easiest to get to or whatever.

It'd be nice if they were off in some Imagineering test bay, being prepared for great new things. </rampantoptimisn> More likely they were auctioned through Disney Auctions or Mouse Surplus, though. I have to admit, it'd be awfully cool to have one of those in the yard..

Post by **js3901** » Jun Fri 08, 2007 6:15 pm

my bet, they were all auctioned off. that, or just flat out destroyed (I hate to think that). In the most recent update to maps.live.com, the aerial (birds eye) view shows all the subs are now gone. no trace they were ever even there:

DisBeamer · Post by **DisBeamer** » Jun Fri 08, 2007 6:26 pm

Awww. I always liked the idea that they were at least still sitting over there. I hope they went to good homes and not to the junkyard.