Ideas for tweaking the point/request system

[Mr.ToadWildRider]

I know there's that sage advice don't fix what ain't broken, but I feel like with the current constraints on requests (30 minutes > until next batch of requests; can't request again until your tracks play) there are a lot of people who now have way more points than can ever be spent in a day. I feel like point values aren't worth nearly what they used to be years ago, and maybe that's fine, but I'm not sure that's what is intended.

I think the easiest solutions to making points more valuable under the current requesting restrictions are either (obviously) boost the point costs of tracks, though that would almost seem too restrictive, or slow down the point regen. I think if you slow the regen everyone will need to budget their points a little better but those with higher point counts will get what I assume the point of the point system was in the first place in extra leeway in requesting as a reward for site dedication. Right now, with the current system, I feel like I personally get as many requests in on a daily basis as people who have 0 posts etc. because I'm limited to 30 minutes and by the time my track comes up and I can request additional songs the playlist is so long I won't be able to hear my requests until later in the evening. Then, when the clock strikes midnight or whenever the regen is we're all back to square one and the person with 2000 basic points is back on the same footing as everyone else (except of course requesting long tracks). I guess my thought it, the point system doesn't really seem to work hand in hand with the requesting restrictions so I feel like either it should be tweaked or it's unnecessary.

Altermatively, maybe tweaking the restrictions to be more like FastPass? i.e. You can't request again until your tracks come up OR after X time- whichever comes first. For example, X may be 2 hours so if I request at 9:00 am and there's already a play list that extends to 12:30 pm I won't have to wait until 12:30 to request again but rather at 11:00 am I'd be open to make requests again because the 2 hour limit came before my tracks did.


Again these are only suggestions obviously and probably not necessary; it's just I sit and stare at my 10k+ points that I can never use any day and it doesn't seem like it makes sense while every morning some user I've never heard of gets in their requests.

[Jacca5660]

After you're here awhile you find yourself listening in more and requesting less. I do miss the days when I could sit with a book and a cup of coffee on a Sunday morning and program 3 or 4 hours of music!! I've have tried and even at night i can barely use 1200 to 2000 points, right no I have almost 60,000 points. I'm here more for the fellowship! ;+>

[Mr.ToadWildRider]

With all due respect Jacca, I've been here longer than you (albeit slightly) and the only reason I request less now than I did 4 years ago is because I can't due to the current restrictions/point system, which is part of what I'm trying to address

[Jacca5660]

With all due respect Jacca, I've been here longer than you (albeit slightly) and the only reason I request less now than I did 4 years ago is because I can't due to the current restrictions/point system, which is part of what I'm trying to address

That's one of my reasons also. It's also because now I've collected a lot of the stuff we have here. If I want to hear something most times I just play it. You are correct, something does need to be done, but you know how that goes, any change made will bring groans from some part of the Subsonic community.

You are one of the few that are active and here longer!! CONGRATS on that!! I think right now I'm second in points behind Mindflipper.

[Mr.ToadWildRider]

Yea I don't post nearly as much as many people. When I was more active it was usually js, sockfire, kgmadorin, AKLRulz, FlatlandMountie and Horizons1 that dominated the forums

I guess my point is just that the point system is almost obsolete with the inclusion of the 30 minute cap unless you're in off hours or just happen to get lucky some day during peak times. I never expect to burn through all 12,000 or whatever points in a day and I'm not even close to the top in terms of points, but most days I only use between 1800 and 3200 points depending if I get stopped at the 30 minute or request some 55+ minute track because there are so many requests throughout the day. And since even members who have yet to post a single time get enough to request at least 30 minutes worth (I think they start with 2,000?) of music/day the points become almost useless unless you want to request something that is 40+ minutes long. If the goal of the point system is still to reward frequent visitors/community members then I feel like it is not meeting that goal and the system should be reconsidered. If that goal has taken less priority over the years since the community has become so vibrant why not just get rid of the points entirely and just use the 30 minute rule currently in place. The only thing that would change a lot is you'd have people having almost free reign off hours, but really who cares at that point? I'd rather be listening to something pleasing that someone picked than every Pal Mickey quote.

Maybe i'm in the minority, but if i'm lucky enough to get a request in around 9:00 am EST it usually doesn't play until 11:30 am or later. By the time my request/s get played it's at least noon EST and the request list usually extends to sometime beyond 5:00 pm and then continues to have a rather lengthy delay between my request and when it plays until at least 8:00 pm when the west coasties get out of work. Because of this I usually only get my one request in in the morning and then don't get a chance to make another request without having to schedule my activities 4+ hours later around being by my computer and it doesn't seem worth it at that point. I'm not complaining about the 30 minute rule because I fully understand why its in place to give more people a chance to make a request; I'm just pointing out how it almost negates the impact of the point system.

The old point system became flawed in that some members who had high point totals (myself at time ) would basically hijack the thread by playing 2+ hours worth of tracks back to back. That system should not be in place any more given how many people have hours upon hours worth of request points on reserve. What I'm suggesting is just somewhere in between, or simply ditching the point system and giving everyone the ability to request any track within the confines of the 30 minute rule. For the record I still like my idea of slowing down/decreasing the frequency of point regen

[Wizzard419]

Another system I've seen (I don't know if it truly works any better) is that if the queue is over a specific duration deep (like 2 hours) the request system disables until it's under the limit again. Not sure if that works any better though.

[elizabethswann]

After you're here awhile you find yourself listening in more and requesting less. I do miss the days when I could sit with a book and a cup of coffee on a Sunday morning and program 3 or 4 hours of music!! I've have tried and even at night i can barely use 1200 to 2000 points, right no I have almost 60,000 points. I'm here more for the fellowship! ;+>

I know what you mean. I haven't found the time to sit down and listen anymore with my fall semester coming to a close. Hopefully once I'm done in two weeks I will be able to sit and try to request some songs.

[mindflipper]

Actually, it would be nice if the 30 minute rule could be "deactivated" under certain circumstances - let's say, for instance, if the queue line of music is less than 1 hour long than the 30 minute rule could be relaxed to one or two hour restriction instead. There are times when the request line is absolutely dead and it would be nice if you could request more - especially if you're the sole requestor at that time!

[elizabethswann]

Actually, it would be nice if the 30 minute rule could be "deactivated" under certain circumstances - let's say, for instance, if the queue line of music is less than 1 hour long than the 30 minute rule could be relaxed to one or two hour restriction instead. There are times when the request line is absolutely dead and it would be nice if you could request more - especially if you're the sole requestor at that time!

That's one of the reasons why I tend to request later at night when there's barely anything in the queue.

[Len90]

There have been talks of changing around the system in the past. I honestly have no idea what will happen and what will go on. The biggest thing that has been mentioned was abolishing the point system. After all, the original purpose of the points was to get some users active on the forums. Those are some interesting ideas that have been posted. However, coding for some of these things could be a challenge. Remember, we have users all over the world so deactivating the 30 minute rule at a certain hour could be a challenge if it is linked towards a person's account. The best thing would be to link it to the server's time.

[momeja]

I actually don't mind the 30 min. rule. And I have been able to use up all my points (of course, I don't begin to have as many points as my friend, Jacca ). That said, I use my points in the middle of the night when no one else is requesting and I'm studying for finals.

During the day, it actually bothers me when people request tracks longer than 30 min. because it limits how many people can make requests unless you're willing to wait and wait. If the site isn't busy, it's no big deal, but if it is, then those long tracks often mean that the requests really back up, so the queue time is 5 hrs. or more. When the site is really busy, if you don't get your request in by 8 am MST, forget it! At those times, I wish the site limited everyone to 30 min. at a time during the day, and the longer tracks were only available at night. (I'm willing to push it to 40 min. for the Adventureland loop )

[MmeLeota]

I try not to request long loops during the day unless it is toward the end of the work day for me (dinner/prime time for the east coast), or unless it it is a slow queue day (yes, it's happened). But honestly, I don't mid if someone requests a long loop during the day. I love the long loops while I work. If there is something on that I don't care for or am not in the mood to listen to, I switch to another stream.

...but I also have fun requesting as much as possible when there's no one posting in the queue.

[momeja]

I hear you, Mme. L. If it's a slow queue day, it's nice, but when you're on mtn. time, it can be a little frustrating to log on in the early morning and discover that queue time has already extended until 5 pm. And I'm sure it's worse for folks on the west coast. The request list has slowed down a bit recently, but it still goes through that wave every once in a while. That's why I think a 30 min. day limit might be a good idea.

[Mr.ToadWildRider]

I'm actually saying the 30 minute rule makes sense, what I'm saying is that I'm not sure the current point system works in tandem with the 30 minute rule and as such the point system should be re-looked at. I admit i'm on of the people that tends to drop a 50 minute loop track in the middle of the day because a) quite frankly they're some of the only tracks I feel comfortable playing during the work day b) I like them and c) because I feel like I'm wasting my points with anything less.

I feel your frustration momeja despite my being on the EST. When I log on at 9:00 am the request like is already usually 3+ hours long. What I'm saying is that usually the request line is clogged by people who do not post on the forums, or do so extremely rarely. If Subsonic and his fellow magical music gnomes are fine with this then so am I, it's their labor of love to do with as they see fit. My point is, I don't necessarily think they are okay with this because they created the point system to minimize that in the first place (i.e. if you don't post and aren't an active community member then you get your 2,000/day allowance and you'll like it, but if you are active well you get to reap the benefits). The problem is 2000 points a day still exceeds 30 minutes a day (1800 points = 30 minutes as 30minutes*60seconds=1,800seconds in 30 minutes) so with the 30 minute rule in place the random requestors, who must live in England or don't sleep or something, get in hours worth of requests every single day and end up netting probably as many if not more request time than most of the people with hundreds if not thousands of posts simply by getting online first. When the 2000/day was given to newbies that was a much more serious limitation because back then you could use all 7.4 billion of your points back to back if you wanted and with 2,000 points your 30ish minutes seemed insignificant (again that was not a good system because then you'd have clogged request lines by single people which us far worse). Now though 30 minutes a day doesn't really seem so bad as most people get limited by the 30 minute rule in their listening and not by their point levels.

Again, if Sub doesn't mind this phenomenon that's fine, although I don't think I'd see a need for the point system anymore as it almost feels like (sans perhaps really off hours) everyone gets one maybe two batches of 30 minutes a day with how crowded the request track has become. I think if perhaps something were done to make points more valuable you wouldn't see people with low-to-no posts burning up the request track or people (like me) with points to spare being quick to his the Illuminations: An Evening at Epcot request button simply to get some value out of the tens of thousands of points I get every day. Give 50% of the requested lines points back at 24 hours and the remaining 50% at 48 hours or something. Then people who have a lot of points will value them more and those with the standard 2000 points will still be able to request on a daily basis but not a full 30 minutes on a daily basis without ever saying "hi" on the forums.

[momeja]

You make some very good points. I still feel that the best solution is a strict time limit during business hours and a looser time limit in the evening, at night and on weekends. However, changing the point regens is an interesting solution, too. I guess I'm less concerned by non-posters making requests. Some people like to lurk. Some like to engage. But we can all be Disney music fanatics. Actually, that's what's great about the site, we have a common interest in the music.

I've found that I'm enjoying the other streams more and more these days, and I only burn up my points during finals, when I have specific music that I want to listen to while studying. Maybe that will change sometime soon. I haven't heard the Stormtrooper Chatter in a while...