Subsonic Themes

jrcohen · Post by **jrcohen** » Jun Wed 14, 2006 11:15 am

I have a question for those of you who've made theme's for the website? Are you guys using a text editor like Notepad and writing all of the code from scratch or are you using a web page builder like Adobe Go Live? I've thought about trying to teach myself a bit of web design and wondering which route to go. I think i'd learn more using a text editor and actually learning all of the commands, but I think i'd take a lot longer for me to do anything neat like a Theme. What do ya'll think?

Post by **subsonic** » Jun Wed 14, 2006 11:36 am

Nobody does any code. They design a "look" in photoshop. I then chop it up and put it into the site.

It's all images.

jrcohen · Post by **jrcohen** » Jun Wed 14, 2006 11:47 am

subsonic wrote:Nobody does any code. They design a "look" in photoshop. I then chop it up and put it into the site.

It's all images.

I see, so then when you chop it up and put it in the site, do you use a builder or code it all by hand? Sorry to be so nosey Sub. I'm just curious, b/c I've been toying with the idea of learning design for a year or so no, and I recently went out and got some design software, but haven't opened it up yet. So i was trying to figure out if it would be better for me to use something like that, or code the "hard way" using a text editor. I've had a few people tell me that both are good ways to do it. Just trying to get a bit more input.

Post by **subsonic** » Jun Thu 15, 2006 10:31 am

Look at the HTML source and CSS source on this site. All the code is already done as far as HTML goes. I designed the site to be easially themed. All that changes is the css and images. But, when I did it, I hand coded everything. I don't believe in builders.

Post by **spaulo** » Jun Thu 15, 2006 11:01 am

Word, Sub... only one working web designer I've ever met still uses anything other than an advanced text editor for his sites, and I've been trying to convince him to stop just letting Photoshop slice his designs and clicking "Save For the Web"

But yeah, jrcohen, if you really want to get into design, find sites you like, an "View Source." Get a book on XHTML/CSS (one by O'Reilly would be a great place to start, I also like Sams) and start working with code directly... you'll learn more, faster, and you'll know what's happening under the hood of your sites.

Using a "builder" piece of software is like learning how to work on a car, and getting your oil changed at Jiffy Lube. Get in there and get your hands dirty!

(oh and if you ever need help, I know there are a few people here on the forums who work with the web for a living, myself included. While I can't volunteer their time, feel free to ask me questions!)

jrcohen · Post by **jrcohen** » Jun Thu 15, 2006 11:11 am

Thanks for the input guys, I know im gonna have some free time this weekend. Should be a good time to dive into to deep end I guess. I'll let you know how it goes.

Club33Hopeful · Post by **Club33Hopeful** » Jun Thu 15, 2006 11:35 am

I use notepad for all of my code editing and writing. I cannot stand how most programs rearrange your code.

knedeau · Post by **knedeau** » Jun Thu 15, 2006 12:59 pm

Actually I've found Macromedia to be a Good Program. But I design my Layouts in an old adobe product (Imagestyler... I still LOVE it) and then I transfer it over to the Sub layout in Photoshop (used to cutting up and such). I also use flash for the header.

Post by **spaulo** » Jun Thu 15, 2006 3:58 pm

Club33Hopeful wrote:I use notepad for all of my code editing and writing. I cannot stand how most programs rearrange your code.

I have had great success with Notepad++... it allows for multiple files open in the same instance (tabs) which is nice, and will color-code your code based on the file extension... it knows what is a variable, for instance, in JS and PHP, and based on the file's extension, will color-code properly.

TextPad, while not as fancy, is also very nice as well.

knedeau, when you say Macromedia, do you mean Dreamweaver? I haven't ever used Dreamweaver, but I know some people who are big fans. I do all my layouts in Photoshop as mockups (usually so the client can see it that way), then cut out the appropriate pieces, and write my code from scratch.

To each their own, though. If you have a good design and clean, valid, semantic code, then how you got there doesn't really matter.

knedeau · Post by **knedeau** » Jun Fri 16, 2006 12:45 pm

Did forget to say dreamweaver?!?!? Opps... Yes I meant dreamweaver, but actually... it's an ADOBE product now! The buyout was a bit of a suprise... if you can't beat them... BUY THE COMPANY!

Yeah I used to write code too... but why do it? I see html editors as I see cars... Cars help us travel faster than walking.. and while it's fun to walk and you SHOULD do a fair deal of walking before you get your car ... driving gets you there so much faster!

Same thing with code. You should know HOW to do it before you get an editor... but once you know how... hand writing just takes TOOO LONG!

Club33Hopeful · Post by **Club33Hopeful** » Jun Fri 16, 2006 12:58 pm

knedeau wrote:I see html editors as I see cars... Cars help us travel faster than walking.. and while it's fun to walk and you SHOULD do a fair deal of walking before you get your car ... driving gets you there so much faster! Same thing with code. You should know HOW to do it before you get an editor... but once you know how... hand writing just takes TOOO LONG!

Ahhh, but there are places that you cannot get to by car. Cars will give you the sterile mass-traveled route, but you cannot get the beauty of the foot path thru the forest by car.

Post by **spaulo** » Jun Fri 16, 2006 1:03 pm

Aye, I agree with Club33... the editors may, like a car, speed your travel... but coding by hand, like walking, gives you a nimbleness and freedom of movement you could never get in a car/with an editor.

I've found that if I hand-code properly... separating my style and presentation... it's no slower than with an editor. Too many editors want to default to table-based layout or fail to properly validate code (all my pages are XHTML 1.0 Strict), so I have to go back and fix their shortcuts anyway.

Again though, to each their own.

Club33Hopeful · Post by **Club33Hopeful** » Jun Fri 16, 2006 1:18 pm

I also tend to comment everything in my code that is not obvious at a quick glance. Because my code contains a lot of comments, if I used an editor, I would spend a lot of time looking at the code view and not the WYSIWYG view. Might as well look at the code in notepad. I will have to check out Notepad++, because the color-coding and tabs would be nice. I also find that if you code by hand, you learn more about the code, which enables you to do much more powerful things. It is funny that my friends and I all started coding HTML back in 1993. They immediately switched to fancy-shmancy editors when they came out. Now they rely on those editors and are lost when looking at the code if it is beyond the basics. It is just too easy to forget the advanced details when you allow the programs to do them for you.

jrcohen · Post by **jrcohen** » Jun Fri 16, 2006 1:40 pm

A few friends here in Austin told be about a site called htmlgoodies.com that seems to have a lot of tutorials about getting started and then some advanced html programming. I think i'm going to start there this weekend. Wish me luck. I'll have to check out some of those books that Spaulo talked about this weekend also.

Post by **spaulo** » Jun Fri 16, 2006 2:00 pm

If you're going to start online, I couldn't think of a better place than The Web Developer's Handbook.

As for books:

Web Design in a Nutshell might be a little advanced, but you'll catch up to it quick. This book is indispensible for learning/keeping up with web design standards, (X)HTML and CSS, etc...

but if you really want to start from scratch, Learning Web Design would be a better choice.